Banned... No good deed goes unpunished

Don't let it bother you, Michael.  It's a bit unfortunate that they are totally lacking in any professional ability to handle community relations without going nuclear, but it's their problem, not ours.  Someone will write a book about it one day.

Have to be honest, this is one of the whiniest threads I've read here, populated by people banned from what appears to be a very popular forum with 10 of thousands of members - with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it! You really don't do yoursleves any favours with stuff like this. Buck up, pull yourselves together, stop whining over spilled milk (that you probably spilt), and get on with it.

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Back to beer now. It's late.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, Billy. You, me, anybody. On the Foundation's forum you're not permitted to always express it, admittedly, but everyone's entitled.

I don't think you've quite understood what my problem is with the ban... First, no warning or notification. Second, most important, as far as I'm concerned, this wasn't in any way an 'offence' unless you call an attempt to spur someone into responding to a journalist's criticisms an offence. I had nothing to gain from posting it in the first place, I'm not a current RS customer, I have no orders outstanding. I was simply trying to get across that not responding to an article that claims to have asked for a response is a 'bad idea'.   I'd rather not have the spirit and reputation of the Pi sullied from a lack of action on anyone's part.

I would've had no objections to my post being deleted, or even to being asked not to post things like that. But it was the fact that I tried to login to a forum I've contributed extensively to and couldn't all of a sudden.

As I said, 'offence' doesn't describe the post I made.

@Billy

I believe you've misinterpreted what I said. I was implying that YOU were entitled to _your_ opinion. Thanks for that article, if only because it was relatively interesting, though not particularly relevant to this thread.

What I posted on the RPi forum was not opinion, it was a statement of fact - that there was an article that said what it said, that it stated no response had been received. I guess the only opinion I expressed was that someone ought to respond. I didn't particularly _care_ if they did or not, just that if I were them, I would. I didn't expect to have to defend posting it. What I was hoping was that someone would actually respond to the article, not to my notification of having found it, which they probably still haven't.

As for my not having an objection to the deletion of the post, I still don't and didn't. It's got nothing to do with thinking it would cause trouble, just that once read and dealt with by someone it wouldn't be relevant any more. If I was running the forum (and I have run one), I would consider deleting an offensive/misleading post as part of a warning, if it was appropriate. I certainly wouldn't just throw a ban out without letting the person know why they were banned. In fact, I probably wouldn't even ban someone for swearing unless it really started getting out of hand, and I know some forums that do.

As for Steve... well, if it's the thread I think it is, then _that_ ban was justified. Accusing people of running a scam is libellous and therefore inappropriate behaviour. And anyway, doesn't really matter whether it's a scam or not - the Pi is a good product regardless - buy it or don't.

--

Mike

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

... with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it!

 

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Oh yes, the RasPowersThatBe definitely follow element14.  That's a good thing, since we do helpful things for RasPi like discovering and analyzing the effect of shorting together 1.8V regulators.  My opinion is that site operators do have the privilege of banning people from their site for misbehaviour at their site, but it's bad manners to ban people for behaviour not at their site.  I've managed to avoid being banned from chez RasPi -- with over 700 comments there

I would say very few "banned from chez RasPi" are active at element14.  However, we do read that lots of banning goes on at RasPi, with classical music playing in the background.

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

... with how many banned people? Not many it seems, and they all seem to be here crying about it!

 

As for the OP's banning - was this a first offence? Judging by some of your comments here, maybe the people in charge over there must be reading here as well...worth considering.

Oh yes, the RasPowersThatBe definitely follow element14.  That's a good thing, since we do helpful things for RasPi like discovering and analyzing the effect of shorting together 1.8V regulators.  My opinion is that site operators do have the privilege of banning people from their site for misbehaviour at their site, but it's bad manners to ban people for behaviour not at their site.  I've managed to avoid being banned from chez RasPi -- with over 700 comments there

I would say very few "banned from chez RasPi" are active at element14.  However, we do read that lots of banning goes on at RasPi, with classical music playing in the background.

@JB Where do you read that lots of people get banned at the Raspberry Pi forum? My 'impression' is that it seems quite rare, since they leave up quite a few posts I would expect to get deleted straight away, and I'd wanna ban and delete stuff. Has anyone ever asked them what the percentage is? I guess that figure would be kept private, so how can anyone outside the Foundation (including presumably the people you've read about) know what the actual figure is? And also, since on forums I frequent, banning include that for spamming (and there is a lot of that) what the percentage of bans through bad behaviour vs general spamming?

Lets say, 100 people have been banned for being naughty - that seems an over estimate to me given how I think the moderation seems to go there. Let's say they have 35k members, ISTR mentioned 30K a while  back, assuming a slight increase since then, then  that about 0.3%  of their traffic. Not a particularly high percentage, about the same are real life arsehole you meet on the street. Actually probably less than that.

Let's say there are ten people here who have been banned from the site, thats 10% of the total banned people. So this site has 30 times more percentage wise of banned people from the RaspberryPi site than the actual RaspberryPi site does!

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

@JB Where do you read that lots of people get banned at the Raspberry Pi forum? My 'impression' is that it seems quite rare, since they leave up quite a few posts I would expect to get deleted straight away...

I don't know how long you've been a RasPi forum member.  I'm ten days away from my one year anniversary, so I've been reading the forum for a long time.  I haven't read a single item anywhere about how many are banished -- I've just accumulated an impression over the last year by reading "OK, you're banned" comments from admins and moderators.  Many of those bannings are justified IMO -- you do get people who persist in being unhelpful.  But I've also seen many bannings I don't consider justified, and I've seen threads locked just when they started to get interesting.

I'm not going to attempt to estimate an actual number.  Since I usually avoid controversial threads these days -- they tend to duplicate threads already discussed -- I suspect that I'd underestimate the number of banishments rather than overestimate.

I think the success of RasPi depends on having a healthy community, and IMO impressions do count.  Here are some of my impressions:

I have to be very careful what I say chez RasPi, particularly when responding to a moderator.  I fear saying something the wrong way could easily get me banned.  This is not a good way to get open discussion.

Admins and moderators are too often rude.  I understand that they have to deal with a lot of garbage including rude e-mail we don't see, so I sympathize.  But admins and moderators set the tone for the community, and should always set a good example.

One admin in particular has had what is IMO a peculiar understanding of the term "concern troll".  So I get the impression that any criticism of RasPi or how it's managed is very likely going to get one banned.  I suspect others may feel the same way, so helpful comments get unsaid.

JMO/YMMV

John Beetem wrote:

 

I suspect others may feel the same way, so helpful comments get unsaid.

That's a pretty insightful comment.  The worst impact of the reign of terror on the RPF forums isn't on those who get banned, but on those who remain behind but dare say nothing less they become further victims themselves.

@Morgaine Dinova - are you bonkers mate (are you a bloke? Can't tell from your pic or name) Reign of terror? WTF are you on? Guess you are one of the bitter banned? You must be on a different planet if you think that' forums a reign of terror.

You seem to be a newcomer to the whole thing, Billy, so I guess you haven't witnessed what we're describing.

All I can suggest is that you dig around in the RPF forums, at least back to the date of board release, and read carefully how the admins and their entourage have been treating anyone who politely raises issues that they believe should be addressed.  It's not pleasant reading, and it's not a professional way to manage community relations.

For an example of a professional way to manage community relations, just observe the forum management right here.

Jeesh, there's like 100k postings there, got any links?

And talking of professional moderation - why can't I see some of my posts? have they been moderated away? That not quite as professional as you might expect.

Billy Thornton wrote:

 

And talking of professional moderation - why can't I see some of my posts? have they been moderated away? That not quite as professional as you might expect.

This thread may help: http://www.element14.com/community/message/58799#58799/l/re-about-our-terms-of-use

So basically, most of my posts seem to have been deleted. This place is worse that the Raspberry Pi forum you seem to think is so bad. Posts deleted without warning, arguments over *this* community erased.

Wow. Well done you lot. You've really got your own private whinge farm here, and as soon as anyone takes you to task the posts disapear. You really must have the moderators in your pockets! Come up, fess up, which of you is slipping the E14 mod boss one? I reckon its the one with the creepy avatar - almost every post get a 'like' even if is a bunch of condecending dag.

To get all Biblical on your arses "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone"

Don't give this post much chance of staying here for long.

Wow, stayed up longer than expected.....

I've a good mind to post about this place on the Raspberry Pi forum - well, I would if I could remmeber my password, and Wrdpress doesnt seem to want to remind me. So, a new account is in order.