first mention of twins

ill try keep this nice.

i think the whole hype about Rpi being the big bad educational tool was nothing more than a pr stunt to get it selling quick, and that is just what happened. i also remember hearing somthing about this being developed by employees of broadcom, when it was first released the soc data sheet required a nondisclosure agreement, so right out of the gate there were problems calling it open source.

i'm sorry if i dont get the idea about teaching computer science with an embeded linux board. don't comp sci cources use full-blown computers already? and if you really want to learn about how computers work, it is much better to start with an 8051 or 8088 and assembly.

but now it seems the more i read, the more i can't suggest the pi for any use other than a media center.

anyways thats my two bits on the the pi.

ill try keep this nice.

i think the whole hype about Rpi being the big bad educational tool was nothing more than a pr stunt to get it selling quick, and that is just what happened. i also remember hearing somthing about this being developed by employees of broadcom, when it was first released the soc data sheet required a nondisclosure agreement, so right out of the gate there were problems calling it open source.

i'm sorry if i dont get the idea about teaching computer science with an embeded linux board. don't comp sci cources use full-blown computers already? and if you really want to learn about how computers work, it is much better to start with an 8051 or 8088 and assembly.

but now it seems the more i read, the more i can't suggest the pi for any use other than a media center.

anyways thats my two bits on the the pi.

Fair points well made Sheldon - here in the UK I feel that issues with computer science education are far more the fault of decision makers within government and the education system than with a lack of availability of suitable hardware. Arduino is an ideal tool for getting started in programming and interfacing, for instance. It's robust, well documented, low in baggage and has been around for ages.

Perhaps if there ever is some kind of backlash against the concept of starting a charity and tossing the word "education" around simply as a sales pitch then I imagine that Broadcom might want to distance themselves from the project. However, so long as it's cheap the overwhelming majority of users probably won't trouble themselves with ethical whatnot.

Horsemeat lasagne, anyone?

I jon't want to distract from the main topic, but personally I think the govt in the UK needs to find a way to get free Internet access to kids - the ongoing monthly cost is not affordable by many parents, whereas saving up £50-£100 or so for an old laptop is feasible. It's pretty hard to learn any language (or indeed many subjects, since libraries are closing) without the communities and knowledge bases available online. If the RPI team were to help get pressure to find a way to have some level of free internet (e.g. mandate councils to provide WiFi access - since many are stockpiling cash) to families, then that would be something positive they could do for education, without creating any hardware.

sheldon bailey wrote:

 

but now it seems the more i read, the more i can't suggest the pi for any use other than a media center.

Professionals who are aware of the relevant  FCC regulations shouldn't be suggesting the Pi for use in any residential application in FCC jurisdiction anyway, since the device does not have FCC certification for residential use.  That would be a Class B certification, and it doesn't have one at the present date.

I doubt that anyone would deny that media centres constitute an overwhelmingly residential or domestic use of a digital device.  It's probably as close to being a poster child for residential use as one could find anywhere.

words are definately tossed around without thought, or intended to decieve.

education has all to often become nothing more than workforce training(brainwashing). i was going to say more about education socialism, but thats not why i am here.

I have a list of buzzwords that make me skeptical of anything. among the top of the list and some my reasoning.

non-profit - if $ is involved it is usually for profit

educational - you can learn from literally any inanimate object or person experienced on the subject.

organic - your automobile is organic according to the chemist definition.

green - Al Gore, you can also include "carbon footprint" or "sustainability" these have been ideas dating back much longer than all of us and have been hijacked by the rich to make them even richer or give them power over the masses.

any device with the letter "I" at the begenning - all of a sudden it became popular to have unnessary letters added to every day common items. WTF is an "Itouch" anyways? it sounds dirty.

there is a lot of shady "science" behind many of the things that end up being forced on us, does not matter wether by law or percieved nessity.

edit: these buzzwords and others have been used to decieve, make money, and controle people.

Morgaine, i agree with its unsuitability because of sub par hardware and or design. however in a properly shielded and fire proof box it would be a wonderfull media center.

From what I hear, Pi does indeed make an exceedingly good media centre.  It's just unfortunate that most of the media centre consumers live in nations that have strong residential equipment certification laws, and Class B (residential) certification is one bullet point that the Pi doesn't offer.

sheldon bailey wrote:

 

Morgaine, i agree with its unsuitability because of sub par hardware and or design. however in a properly shielded and fire proof box it would be a wonderfull media center.

Get a Roku, you will spend less money and time.

-J

Professionals who are aware of the relevant  FCC regulations ...

for the record, I have tried to locate the first professional to credit for raising

the issue of Class B testing.  Does anyone have any earlier reference than

https://twitter.com/abishurp/status/188635726030708736

@Raspberry_Pi Did y'all also do the class B testing (do y'all still plan on doing it?) or are you quitting while you're ahead here?

7:33 AM - 7 Apr 12

I think that we're veering a bit off-topic - although it's understandable because as engineers and technicians we're more used to weighing up definables than discussing ethics.

The Foundation have been quite clever, they've told the story about what prompted their formation countless times and then they just let us assume that their liberal use of the word "education" and their charitable status meant that the selling of this low cost computer would be part of some kind of bigger picture. Some of us thought that maybe this was part of a coordinated effort to e.g.

1) convince the weary U.K. taxpayer that teaching proper computer engineering was a good thing.

2) Lobby government, educational establishments and the industries that the education system feeds in order to gain cooperation, fashion a plan and eventually a curriculum.

3) Form partnerships with establishments, individuals and companies in order to provide solutions for that curriculum - a bare computer is nothing without software, supplementary learning materials, peripherals, ongoing support, etc.

4) Keep charming the non-geek public. It's gonna cost a lot of money, after all. One of the main problems that requires addressing is the lack of specific expertise within the teaching profession. Fixing this would cost rather more than $25 a pop.

However, anyone who cares to start at the beginning of the RPi blog (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/date/2011/page/5) and watch any one of the innumerable video presentations may notice that since at least 2011 (the blog begins at around the time of the creation of the alpha boards) pretty much all of the Foundation's efforts have concentrated on selling a board with a big graphics chip to as many people as possible. There are occasional references to "an educational release" and a "programming prize fund", but this is all about selling a product. That's fine - some Pi have ended up in the hands of students and teachers who have unilaterally done amazing things, but most people who want to bring a consumer product to market don't create a charitable foundation in order to do get that product "out there".

What a pitch - Alan Sugar would be proud.

That's quite insightful, Jonathan.

I suspect that clever sleight of hand won't carry much weight with the FCC though.