first mention of twins

jamodio wrote:

 

The Rpi could be an interesting way to "entice" kids to get involved with technology, but again it is not a hardware problem, I'll spend more time and cycles on how to teach good ol math and logic in a more innovative and modern way, the Rpi and Phyton are not "teaching" tools. I learned to program with a notepad and a pencil.

Well said.  Enticement and education are two different things.

Cheap computer boards can provide enticement, and they can reduce the financial disincentive against experimentation, but by themselves they provide no education at all.  In addition to a suitable platform and/or equipment, education requires  1) a learning process and 2)  very strong learning involvement by the person who is trying to learn.  These are not optional.

The learning process is in virtually all cases some variation on a person who knows something communicating that knowledge to someone who doesn't.  The presence of the tutor doesn't have to be in person --- textbooks have provided communication of knowledge by inanimate proxy ever since the printing press was invented, and nowadays electronic equivalents abound.  They are always present however, and non-optional.  Without them, a platform like a computer board can  educate only by accident of undirected personal experimentation.  Efficient directed learning requires input from those who already have the knowledge, a planned learning process.

Involvement by the learner is not optional either.  You learn nothing about programming through cut'n'paste of downloaded source code into your IDE following by clicking 'Build' and 'Run'.  Nothing at all.  You might think you have learned something at the time because you did read and maybe understood the source code, but a fortnight later you will remember nothing, and even less will you be able to apply the experience to other problems.  It requires effort (and a certain amount of pain) to learn, and without that effort you will not learn despite having gone through the motions.

This is just to expand on what you wrote.  A cheap platform can certainly remove barriers to education (and that is definitely valuable), but it should not be confused with education itself.  That's a much harder nut to crack.

Professionals who are aware of the relevant  FCC regulations ...

for the record, I have tried to locate the first professional to credit for raising

the issue of Class B testing.  Does anyone have any earlier reference than

https://twitter.com/abishurp/status/188635726030708736

@Raspberry_Pi Did y'all also do the class B testing (do y'all still plan on doing it?) or are you quitting while you're ahead here?

7:33 AM - 7 Apr 12

I think that we're veering a bit off-topic - although it's understandable because as engineers and technicians we're more used to weighing up definables than discussing ethics.

The Foundation have been quite clever, they've told the story about what prompted their formation countless times and then they just let us assume that their liberal use of the word "education" and their charitable status meant that the selling of this low cost computer would be part of some kind of bigger picture. Some of us thought that maybe this was part of a coordinated effort to e.g.

1) convince the weary U.K. taxpayer that teaching proper computer engineering was a good thing.

2) Lobby government, educational establishments and the industries that the education system feeds in order to gain cooperation, fashion a plan and eventually a curriculum.

3) Form partnerships with establishments, individuals and companies in order to provide solutions for that curriculum - a bare computer is nothing without software, supplementary learning materials, peripherals, ongoing support, etc.

4) Keep charming the non-geek public. It's gonna cost a lot of money, after all. One of the main problems that requires addressing is the lack of specific expertise within the teaching profession. Fixing this would cost rather more than $25 a pop.

However, anyone who cares to start at the beginning of the RPi blog (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/date/2011/page/5) and watch any one of the innumerable video presentations may notice that since at least 2011 (the blog begins at around the time of the creation of the alpha boards) pretty much all of the Foundation's efforts have concentrated on selling a board with a big graphics chip to as many people as possible. There are occasional references to "an educational release" and a "programming prize fund", but this is all about selling a product. That's fine - some Pi have ended up in the hands of students and teachers who have unilaterally done amazing things, but most people who want to bring a consumer product to market don't create a charitable foundation in order to do get that product "out there".

What a pitch - Alan Sugar would be proud.

That's quite insightful, Jonathan.

I suspect that clever sleight of hand won't carry much weight with the FCC though.

jamodio wrote:

 

Get a Roku, you will spend less money and time.

 

-J

the roku is nice, but I always have old desktop pc hardware thrown at me, been using one as a media centre for a few years now.

even if the Rpi makes it way to the super poor areas, it would probably be traded for a meal or two. what good is an internet connected device if there is no internet?

while the Internet can be a good tool to help learn for people who actually use it responsibly, it is also a great distraction, and it lends to the "cut and paste" type of problem solving, that has no educational value whatsoever.

Morgaine Dinova wrote:

 

That's quite insightful, Jonathan.

 

I suspect that clever sleight of hand won't carry much weight with the FCC though.

Thanks Morgaine - the amount of evidence suggesting that it's an end-user (consumer / residential) product will hopefully carry a metric bunch of weight though. A cynic might suggest that the FCC doc. linked to in the other thread might be in need of a bit of an update (I think it was dated 1993) and that a really slick lawyer might claim that the Pi is just a populated motherboard and is thus exempt. The Foundation may have to airbrush all references to the word "computer" from the internet in order to pull this off, but they've had a lot of practice at airbrushing history on their forum... [/tongue-in-cheek mode]

coder27 wrote:

 

for the record, I have tried to locate the first professional to credit for raising

the issue of Class B testing.  Does anyone have any earlier reference than

https://twitter.com/abishurp/status/188635726030708736

Was that posted in April of this year, or 2012?

For our part here on Element14, all the credit clearly has to go to yourself for nailing this issue near the beginning of Pi time and persevering with it until today.  It was only extremely recently that I finally picked up on your FCC links in detail, and was amazed by what I read there.

If Element14 had paid attention to your postings on the subject last year, they wouldn't be in this risky situation they are in today.

Was that posted in April of this year, or 2012?

It was 7 April 2012.

perhaps the problems with certification was engineered into the Rpi to prevent it from being used as an OEM part of a finished comercial product. keeping it in the educational or maker spaces.

probably not the case.

a really slick lawyer might claim that the Pi is just a populated motherboard and is thus exempt

The UK's BIS has already ruled that it was a finished product.

The E14 FAQ says:

http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-43262/l/updated-15-march-frequently-asked-questions-about-raspberry-pi

HOT OFF THE PRESS UPDATE FROM EBEN UPTON OF RASPBERRY PI EARLIER TODAY:

“We have spoken with BIS this morning, and have been told that, given the volumes involved and the demographic mix of likely users, the development board exemption is not applicable to us; as a result, even the first uncased developer units of Raspberry Pi will require a CE mark prior to distribution in the EU...... ....we are working with RS Components and element14/Premier Farnell to bring Raspberry Pi into a compliant state as soon as is humanly possible.”

and

Over the past weeks, it is clear that customers who have pre-ordered are going to use the Raspberry Pi as a finished product and not just an engineering development board.  We see it as the most responsible approach to ensure that all Pi’s meet the required standards for finished products in their respective country. We are prioritizing the compliance testing process by working closely with the Raspberry Pi foundation and RS Components to make sure there are no more delays.  We take our commitment and responsibility in this area very seriously and believe that while this is a frustrating short-term delay, it’s worth it to ensure our customers receive a fully compliant product.

It would be quite startling to see their position change to it being a finished product in the UK but not in the US.

There are plenty of published articles and interviews describing the RPi as a computer intended for children's bedrooms.

http://blog.ted.com/2013/06/14/wherefore-raspberry-pi-eben-upton-at-tedglobal-2013/

What is a Raspberry Pi?

It’s a credit-card sized computer ...

...

“Our idea was to build something cheap, powerful and available for children’s bedrooms so they could have the same experience we had.”