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RoadTest Forum Difficulty getting good ripple / noise measurements
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Related

Difficulty getting good ripple / noise measurements

Fred27
Fred27 over 1 year ago

Im currently roadtesting the Rohde & Schwarz NGC103 and as part of my investigation I'm trying to measure the ripple / noise and compare it to other supplies. The problem I'm having is that I don't seem to be able to get a reasonable measurement. I get the feeling that isn't swamped by external interference.

I watched a helpful EEVBlog video and tried to optimise my setup but I don't seem to be able to get close to any meaningful measurement. In fact, there's not much different if I just connect the two banana plugs together and measure the noise on my 0V there!

Here's a photo of the best setup I've managed so far. I tried differential measurement with one probe on + and one on - and measuring the difference. Whilst I could see the common mode noise on both channes that were being cancelled out, the result was still noisier than this. I have AC coupling, a 20Mhz bandwidth limit and have tried via a 10:1 probe, a 1:1 probe, and probeless direct via banana to BNC as pictured.

Noise measurement setup

Noise measurement screenshot

Any suggestions? In fact, is measuring noise in a setup like this even useful? Would you just trust the datasheet on this? For reference, the datasheet says < 6mV peak-to-peak and < 1mV RMS. I'm getting over an order of magniture more.

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  • anniel747
    anniel747 over 1 year ago
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  • Fred27
    0 Fred27 over 1 year ago in reply to anniel747

    That certainly helped get a better picture of what was going on. A spectragram revealed some intermittent noise around the ISM band here in the UK - 433MHz and just under 700MHz. I think that's to be expected. However, the big reveal was a lot of noise around 20MHz that disappeared when I went out into the garden. I suspect this is the USB power built in to my wall outlets. I also remembered that I was using an old-ish Ethernet over poweline adapter but that didn't seem to be causing any problems.

    However I still have a fair amount of noise at lower frequencies. The FFT says arounf 76kHz but I think that'll be a rough figure. I'm still not sure what this is, but it's still swamping any readings I'm getting from the PSU.

    image

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  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to Fred27

    A 20 MHz peak seems to be high for switch mode supply harmonics. Maybe an artifact generated by a PC?

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  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps said:
    A 20 MHz peak seems to be high for switch mode supply harmonics. Maybe an artifact generated by a PC?

    Notches roughly where the amateur bands are suggests HF PLC (either video or networking).

    https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/special-focus/pla-plt/2012/11/12/a-standard-for-powerline-telecommunications-devices-the-rsgb-involvement/

    "So in simple terms what does this mean? The standard has been approved and devices that fail to meet it will no longer be able to be sold, after a three-year grace period, unless certified to meet EN50561-2012. Significant protection is provided for the Amateur HF bands, as the standard specifies fixed notching for these and other safety of life bands, reducing conducted emissions from PLC devices to the levels of EN55022."

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  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    n.b.: industry convention for noise measurements is 20 MHz. Many oscilloscopes have a "high-bandwidth/20 MHz" switch because of that. 

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  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    n.b.: industry convention for noise measurements is 20 MHz. Many oscilloscopes have a "high-bandwidth/20 MHz" switch because of that. 

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