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Ask an Expert Forum What is the best choice of LED to build a large (400mm) outdoor 7-segment display?
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What is the best choice of LED to build a large (400mm) outdoor 7-segment display?

line
line over 4 years ago

Having done a reasonable amount of research (clearly not enough) I'd value some assistance in selecting LEDs to make large 7-segment displays for outdoor use.

The application is for clocks/timers, with a viewing distance of 100m, reasonable viewing angle (ideally two displays at 90 degrees to provide near 180 degree viewing angle), for a product to run from mains (240Vac) or portable (12Vdc). Using two 7-segment characters for each display module.

Can anyone suggest either some suitable 7-segment displays (ready made - I can't find any) or LEDs suitable for making some bespoke displays?

Considerations include:

Brightness: How many lumens/mcd per segment are required for 100m visibility outdoors (full sunlight)?

Forward voltage: I expect to require higher than a 12V supply for the LED segment (daisy chain), using a boost converter to achieve the required voltages from a 12Vdc power source (battery) but it (Vf) needs to be reasonable.

Forward current: anticipate using constant current drivers to drive the LED segments, again needs to be reasonable (1w max).

Cost: each 7-segment display needs to be under £50 if buying and under £25 component cost if building, for the overall product cost to be viable.

Power: a consideration for the batteries - spec is four 7-segment displays (2 modules with 2 characters each) running for 6 hours of operation.

Heat: heat sink / heat management to avoid the LED junctions overheating (eg high power LEDs)

Viewing angles: In theory 90 degrees viewing angle per segment/display but in practice would the LED viewing angle need to be this high to achieve good/acceptable results across 180 degrees with two displays fixed 90 degrees to each other?

Quantity and arrangement of LEDs per segment?

If it helps (not much) a decimal point is not required - just the 7-segment characters.

 

If anyone has experience in this area and can offer some assistance\guidance it would be greatly appreciated.

With so many LEDs to choose from - you could save me a lot of pain and headache. Thanks in advance.

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  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 4 years ago +4 suggested
    Hello Matthew, Have you looked at using WS2812 strips also sometimes called Neopixels? I have seen several large 7 segment displays made from them - for example these made for a clock. There may be 12…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 4 years ago +4 suggested
    Hi Matthew, Another option maybe worth considering is 'jumbotron' type panels. They are available from Aliexpress for under £25 each (google search for something like 'aliexpress P8 LED panel') and each…
  • fmilburn
    fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to line +4 suggested
    I think the segments that are lit will be visible if there is sufficient contrast in color and / or brightness compared to the unlit ones. I have some and will try and do an experiment and capture the…
  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago

    Hello Matthew,

     

    Have you looked at using WS2812 strips also sometimes called Neopixels?   I have seen several large 7 segment displays made from them - for example these made for a clock.  There may be 12 V versions, if not then a switching buck converter could be used to get 5 V

     

    edit: here is another one https://learn.adafruit.com/ninja-timer-giant-7-segment-display/overview

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  • line
    0 line over 4 years ago in reply to fmilburn

    Hi Frank

    Thank you for the suggestion and a beautiful solution for indoor use but are these bright enough to be visible outdoors?

    Example: https://www.ukled.co.uk/led-strip-4-8w-m.html

    Spec quotes lumens per meter at 240lm.

    To construct a 400mm character, each segment would be 200mm long which is just 48lm.

    Sadly I don't think it would be visible in bright daylight from more than a few meters.

    I had come across the Ninja timer in my research - I think it's great (for indoors).

    I have been looking for suitable SMD devices - the viewing angles are great - but I haven't found the right combination of quantity, cost, power and brightness yet.

    What do you think?

    Regards Matthew

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  • shabaz
    0 shabaz over 4 years ago

    Hi Matthew,

     

    Another option maybe worth considering is 'jumbotron' type panels. They are available from Aliexpress for under £25 each (google search for something like 'aliexpress P8 LED panel') and each one may be the right size for a digit.

    According to this link, some panels are visible for 100m distance: http://www.fullcolorled-display.com/sale-7133179-transparent-led-display-full-color-ultra-thin-ourdoor-with-8-100m-viewi…

     

    The '8' in 'P8' refers to the LED pitch (and I guess in some way an indication of the LED size), so P10 or P16 could be even brighter (you might want to buy one of each and test them out).

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  • fmilburn
    0 fmilburn over 4 years ago in reply to line

    I think the segments that are lit will be visible if there is sufficient contrast in color and / or brightness compared to the unlit ones.  I have some and will try and do an experiment and capture the results outdoors on my phone - but it is raining here at the moment and it may be a day or so before we get good weather.

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 4 years ago

    Another option may be flip-dot displays. Let the daylight do the work.

    https://www.buse.cz/en/components-and-technology/display-components-and-modules/display-flip-dot-and-flip-dot-led

     

    If it needs to be visible at night then there are the flip-dot-led hybrids which are available in strips of  7x 15mm dots:

    https://www.buse.cz/getattachment/Komponenty-a-technologie/Zobrazovaci-prvky-a-moduly/Zobrazovaci-prvky-flip-DOT-a-flip-…

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  • Former Member
    0 Former Member over 4 years ago in reply to beacon_dave

    A great suggestion Dave - thanks.

    I had thought about using them.

    I think they are great for scoreboards and they make a great noise as they operate (clicking through) but I'd rather use digital (LEDs) than anything mechanical for this project. It's for outdoors and, long term, I think the mechanical components would be prone to sticking/jamming.

    Thanks for the suggestion.

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  • geralds
    0 geralds over 4 years ago

    Hi Matthew,

     

    Please describe a bit more details about your project.

    In the 90th I built some outdoor displays with standard ICs.

    One of the display controller / driver may be the AS1116, or similar (eg. from Texas Instruments, or Infineon, or On-Semi, or........

    It is a dot matrix controller (64 dot separate controlled) which can be easy connected to a µC and can be stacked for more dots.

    It is relatively cheap of cost.

    The LEDs you can use low current super bright LEDs  e.g. with 10mm diameter, with a lens head.

    Or can mount lenses on top of the LEDs you for more brightness.

    So you can save current and cost.

    The prize may be increasing up with a necessary LED-driver, because the controller cannot drive more then 5V with few mA.

    So an ULN or transistor driver is needing.

     

    Best regards

    Gerald

    ---

    Attachments:
    imageAS1116_Datasheet_v1_04[1].pdf
    imageAS1106_07_Data_Sheet_v2-24[1].pdf
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  • line
    0 line over 4 years ago in reply to geralds

    Hi Gerald

    I totally agree with the transistor driver on the output - potentially multi constant current drivers (sharing the load) per segment (depending upon the LED configuration, voltage and current). It's the |LE|Ds that are proving the difficult/elusive piece of the puzzle.

    Did you have anything specific in mind ewg when you say "The LEDs you can use low current super bright LEDs  e.g. with 10mm diameter, with a lens head."?

    Thanks for the help.

    Regards

    Matt

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  • line
    0 line over 4 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Hi Shabaz

    This is a terrific suggestion.

    The spec and the price are pretty impressive - way above the ask but a bonus if it can meet the spec at this price range.

    I'm not sure they are the solution for this project - simply because the decoding and driving the displays will be more complicated than necessary. However, I am definately going to investigate these devices further and buy some to test. I need to find a project just to use these.

    Thanks for pointing them out. Did you have any ideas for a simple (binary drivers) LED display?

    All the best.

    Matthew

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  • geralds
    0 geralds over 4 years ago in reply to line

    Look this:

    http://www.liyiled.com/32-inch-led-number-display-large-7-segment-display-4-digit-remote-control-2500x1000mm-p00443p1.ht…

     

    Professional led display manufacturer

     

    https://www.banggood.com/de/10Pcs-12V-10mm-Ultra-Bright-Pre-wired-Constant-LEDs-Water-Clear-LED-p-1366334.html?rmmds=sea…

     

    https://www.ledil.com/product-landing/single-lenses/#start

     

    Gerald

    ---

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