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  • multicomp pro oscilloscope
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Observing 96MHz clock signal and its divisions leads to "strange" results

obones
obones 9 days ago

Hello all,

I'm toying (pun intended) with ideas in the context of a future challenge and while I'm not settled on what the thing should do, I'm decided on using the MAX32666FTHR2 board that I was gifted with a couple of years back.

The "Light Up Your Life Challenge" gave me a push to finally use the 8*8 WS2812B matrix that I once bought because it looked nice and was not expensive, and so I'm trying to hook it up to the board.

As I can't seem to get the proper output signal to send to the LEDs, I decided to observe what's coming out of the MAX32666 pins.

My first experiment was to use a continuous timer, whose clock is half the system clock (96MHz) and which toggles the output pin every time the counter reaches the comparison value. Here is what I get with two relatively high values:

image image

The signal should be a nice square wave, it does not look that clean, but I know there's always some rise and fall time coming into play.

But things get worse when the comparison value for the timer is even lower, like here with 3:

image

After further fiddling with the various peripherals on the MCU, I was able to output the 96MHz clock signal, and this is what I get:

image

I had to stop the oscilloscope because it was not able to see a proper trigger level, let alone compute the frequency from such small signal.

Now, if I read the graph properly, there's about 10ns between two peaks, which is consistent with a 96MHz frequency for the signal.

However, what I'm really wondering about is the fact that the faster the signal, the more distorted I observe it, to the point where it won't even reach full voltage swing between 0V and 3.3V.

Out the top of my head, I can see three reasons for these results:

  1. Reaching the limits of the MAX32666 pin switching capabilities
  2. Reaching the limits of what the oscilloscope can see
  3. Reaching the limits of my own stupidity

For point 1, I tried looking for rise and fall time on output pins in the electrical characteristics for the MAX32666 but could not find anything related to this in the (somewhat confusing) datasheet.

For point 2, the DSO is said to be "100MHz" so as 96 is lower than 100, it should be fine. But maybe Shannon law should be taken into account and 100/2 being lower than 96, the results are expected.

For point 3, well, it could come on top of the two other points, and so I won't rule it out just yet.

I know there is a "Oscilloscope 101" webinar in the works which might actually answer those questions just fine. If that's the case, I'd gladly wait for it.

Thanks for your attention.

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  • Robert Peter Oakes
    Robert Peter Oakes 5 days ago +3
    one thing I did not see being mentioned is about the scope (And probes). Bandwidth of 100Mhz will be 3db down already but the reference for this is a sine wave, not a square wave. A square wave is made…
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 9 days ago +1
    A (very) quick scan of the MAX32666 suggets that they have 4 possible drive current settings for GPIO pins. 1mA drive into a 10pF load will give you a slew rate of 100mV per ns. (and of course…
  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps 7 days ago in reply to obones +1
    The oscilloscope has a 100 Mhz bandwidth. If you probe a 100 MHz square wave signal with it, you 'll notice a few things - even with perfect probing techniques The signal root wave (a 96 MHz sinus…
Parents
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 9 days ago

    A (very) quick scan of the MAX32666 suggets that they have 4 possible drive current settings for GPIO pins.

    image

    1mA drive into a 10pF load will give you a slew rate of 100mV per ns.

    (and of course 8mA will get 800mV/ns)

    Your 96MHz signal has 5ns up/down time so you would  expect a signal amplitude of 500mV pk - pk with the 1mA drive. (And I've assume 10pF but your probe + pcb could be worse)

    The scope trace shows about 350mV.

    So if you are on the low current setting for your pin that would be about right.

    Try setting the pin for 8mA and you might see a rather (8x) better slew rate.

    It's often a good idea to check the pin drive on modern processors because quite a few offer options  - low currents can reduce noise when you can get away with them, high currents are good for speed but may be handy when you actually want power out of the pin.

    MK

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  • obones
    obones 8 days ago in reply to michaelkellett

    Thanks for the suggestion, I was under the impression this only applied if I was driving "power hungry" things like LEDs.
    I did change the setting from 00 to 11 and this is what I now get:

    imageimage
    The difference is not much but it is indeed cleaner with more "swing".

    I also tried placing the scope in AC mode for CH1 along with 100 millivolts per division to scope the 96MHz signal and this is what I got:

    image

    So, clearly, the 96MHz is here on the pin, it's just that I don't seem to have the proper equipment to measure the full voltage swing. That does not surprise me as I'm near the limits of the scope, but at least I learned quite a few things along the way.

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 8 days ago in reply to obones

    Is it a switchable probe, and if so are you using it on x1 or x10.

    MK

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  • obones
    obones 8 days ago in reply to michaelkellett

    It is switchable and I'm using it on the x1 setting

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 8 days ago in reply to obones

    Try on the x10 setting - expect much lower input capacity.

    The Cal Test cheapo 100MHz 10:1/1:1 probe sold by Farnell claims 90pf on 1:1, 16pF on 10:1.

    MK

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  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 8 days ago in reply to obones

    Try on the x10 setting - expect much lower input capacity.

    The Cal Test cheapo 100MHz 10:1/1:1 probe sold by Farnell claims 90pf on 1:1, 16pF on 10:1.

    MK

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