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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
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  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
Parents
  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago

    Future of Eagle...

     

    https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/bim-360-glue-forum/bim-360-is-currently-unavailable-please-try-again-later/td-p/6909972

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Karel

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 8 years ago in reply to Joop14

    Probably the outage was related to this...

     

     

    Amazon typo knocked websites offline - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-39151932

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    Burner . wrote:

     

    And they just did it. If you have student licence and Eagle 8.0.3 It wants internet connection each time when you start Eagle control panel. So example when you go to airplane or to bus what goes trough area where is no mobile connection, remember launch it first. When you are on air it is too late. I feel that is time to start study kicad.

    Really? If this is indeed true it would be disappointing but I think likely just a mistake to be corrected. I can't even see v8.0.3 available anywhere so maybe if they did release it they realised and pulled it already?

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    This is false and I'm not sure where youre getting this information.  Have you tested this or you're just making assumptions? 

     

    FWIW, it rolls over to freeware when you are outside of the 14-day window but the token persists for educational version when you are offline.  If you log in on an airplane, the token you have would continue to work.  In fact, the educational version is a premium license (which is never was in the past...that cost $$$ in the past).  The software *should* never stop working by virtue of going offline.

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  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt Berggren wrote on Wed, 08 March 2017 17:28

    *This is false and I'm not sure where youre getting this

    information.  Have you tested this or you're just making assumptions? 

    Is this your first post on the forum?  If so, perhaps you can test

    things before making unsubstantiated claims on the forums so we dont have

    misdirection here.  Thanks! *

     

     

    Hi Matt, if I remember well, you are the person who said that Eagle

    shouldn't go subscription.

    Were you just making an unsubstantiated claim? This is false

     

     

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Matt Berggren wrote on Wed, 08 March 2017 09:28

    *This is false and I'm not sure where youre getting this information.

     

    So Matt, why do you go away for a while, then swoop in to make statements

    like this, then disappear again?  (Your last post here is from February

    24.)  You still haven't answered my questions about who runs these servers,

    and as far as I know, you still haven't given James a direct answer to his

    last message.  You seem to be quite selective in what you respond to.

     

    I'm starting to wonder if you're a douche in real life, since from my

    perspective, you're sure coming across as one here...

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • burner
    burner over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    I tested it. Several times, I also try install it again, I try open it different ways and all times same result. Without connection it asks to connect network first and press retry. Anyway that retry button does not work. When I am on internet there is no problem at all. I can just open it and it works. BUT if I close Control Panel and try open it without network it is each time same thing. Because looks that you have some kind trust issues with first posters I also attach screen capture. And BTW I find that forum because I try find solution to that problem. So Matt I totally understand that you want to be first, but it does not make you a president even you claim that it is false news.

    image

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    On 3/8/2017 5:55 PM, Burner . wrote:

    I tested it. Several times, I also try install it again, I try open it different ways and all times same result. Without connection it asks to connect network first and press retry. Anyway that retry button does not work. When I am on internet there is no problem at all. I can just open it and it works. BUT if I close Control Panel and try open it without network it is each time same thing. Because looks that you have some kind trust issues with first posters I also attach screen capture. And BTW I find that forum because I try find solution to that problem. So Matt I totally understand that you want to be first, but it does not make you a president even you claim that it is false news.

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/217916

     

     

    Hi Burner,

     

    What operating system are you working with? Are you on Linux?

    On Linux, EAGLE currently has difficulty with Mac addresses when you are

    not connected through an Ethernet cable. This is a known issue and we

    are looking onto it.

     

    If you are not on linux, please e-mail me directly

    support@cadsoftusa.com and we'll look into it some more.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to Joop14

    This isnt correct. I stated we hadn't planned to do this and it wasn't a priority at the time however we may do it in the future.  Paraphrasing I believe I'd said "we weren't planning this however could I say we never would?  No.  But it wasn't a priority."  So you're omitting an important piece of the overall story.  We made the call to do this with version 8.  So I'd appreciate if it was characterized as though Id been dishonest.  Thanks!

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    I'd corrected an innacuracy and I'll thank you for not trolling another user (myself included) and reducing this to a name calling exercise.

     

    If you want to know more about me and what I get up to, checkout my hackaday profile (Hackaday.com/matt). When it's not building OSHW stuff or dropping in here when I can,  I'm working on EAGLE...if indeed your curious what Im up to. 

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    You have to connect to the network the first time.  Once you do this, the SW will run in freeware mode even if the license 'lapses'.  The student version also requires that you login at least one time.  If you just want to install the freeware, you still need an account and you need to login at least one time.  If you change mac address, this may also require you to log in.  If you want to contact support, they'll help you get this sorted.  If it is not working at all, then you likely have a proxy issue or you are switching mac addresses, etc. but this shouldn't occur after the first time you login.  This hasn't been reported with people that have logged in already so it's something for us to look into.  This would be something for support to figure out and if we need to fix something, we will do our best to get it into the next build.

     

    Cheers,

    mb

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    BTW, if you close that window, what happens?  Does eagle run at all?

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    BTW, if you close that window, what happens?  Does eagle run at all?

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  • burner
    burner over 8 years ago in reply to technolomaniac

    Nope, It just get closed. Also if I connect to net when that window is already open and press that refresh button nothing happens. Only way to get that running is that computer needs to be connected to internet when I launch software. If I connect it when that windows is already open I need close and reopen eagle to get it work. I can close & open files via eagle control panel. Anyway if I example open file via explorer and it will start new instance of control panel it will not open if computer is not at net.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    On 03/09/2017 12:50 AM, Burner . wrote:

    Nope, It just get closed. Also if I connect to net when that window is already open and press that refresh button nothing happens. Only way to get that running is that computer needs to be connected to internet when I launch software. If I connect it when that windows is already open I need close and reopen eagle to get it work. I can close & open files via eagle control panel. Anyway if I example open file via explorer and it will start new instance of control panel it will not open if computer is not at net.

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/217922

     

    If you don't have a network connection you don't have a mac address. It

    also changes from eithernet connection vs wifi.

    Paul

     

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    CadSoft Guest wrote:

     

    Re: Eagle v8 licensing...

     

    If you don't have a network connection you don't have a mac address. It

    also changes from eithernet connection vs wifi.

    Paul

     

    Hi Paul,

     

    ähm ??? what does mac with Ethernet?? - they are two pair of shoes.

    The MAC-address is "fix"(of course changeable register entry) in the hardware, Ethernet is a protocol.

     

    If you have no connection firstly you have no protocol or no cable connection, and then can happen also missing a MAC.

    But the MAC is coming with the manufactured hardware.

    -> If you say "if you don't have Ethernet, you have no MAC" - then i suggest that there was a hack attack. image

     

    Gerald

    ---

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  • burner
    burner over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    If you don't have a network connection you don't have a mac address. It

    also changes from eithernet connection vs wifi.

    Paul

     

    That can explain it.

    Anyway I see that more like bug than feature then. Modern Windows 10 machines jump interfaces up and down quite lot depending do you have cable, wifi or vpn connected. If that software licence system use only active interface mac or prefer it it is not good software design. Yes it can be feature but so brain dead one that in perspective of users it is just badly broken software.

    Good licencing modules are base of software vendor business. Bad ones are just way to get rid of customers and destroy business. I know that cad soft had have poor ones (flexlm) at their softwares what are at monopoly position in business.  Anyway in PCB cad market they are not at monopoly position so enforcing customers to poor technology can lead just mass escape of customers.

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    YES - That's the point! also what i meant above.

    The point of the disaster is that they not listening the costumers.

    And if so, they misinterpret the customers "the customers are so aggressive to me..."...

    No we are not aggressive we are a little bit annoyed about the strong method from Autodesk.

    "pay first today and then after one year you can get what you paid for..!"

    -> A bag with fleas inside.

     

    Gerald

    ---

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  • dukepro
    dukepro over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    On 03/09/2017 08:50 AM, Burner . wrote:

    If you don't have a network connection you don't have a mac address. It

    also changes from eithernet connection vs wifi.

    Paul

     

    That can explain it.

    Anyway I see that more like bug than feature then. Modern Windows 10 machines jump interfaces up and down quite lot depending do you have cable, wifi or vpn connected.

     

    I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

     

    Oh... wait, I see.  Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

    cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

    vpn (yet another interface).   Depending on what you're using at the

    time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

    what it was for a /previous/ connection.

     

    As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

    you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

    ECAD package.  Something to consider, anyway.

     

    If that software licence system use only active interface mac or prefer it it is not good software design. Yes it can be feature but so brain dead one that in perspective of users it is just badly broken software.

     

    Something that doesn't change on-the-fly is the disk ID on which the

    software is installed, or the inode number.  Granted, this does change

    with a disk swap, or restore from backups, so a revalidating of the

    license would be required in those instances.

     

    Anyway in PCB cad market they are not at monopoly position so enforcing customers to poor technology can lead just mass escape of customers.

     

    Well, the loss of customers was predicable.  I'm sure they had similar

    loss when they moved other products to subscription only.

     

    I'm also sure Autodesk considered the fiasco encountered when Cadsoft

    moved to flexlm with v7.0 and considered receiving a similar retort when

    they decided to acquire Cadsoft.  Personally, I believe Autodesk assumed

    that they would move to a subscription model well before the acquisition

    - that's their business model.  They'd been through the perpetual to

    subscription transition for most of their other products and assumed

    that the same would occur with Eagle.  Their past experiences with this

    turned out well for their revenue stream (which means that it did NOT

    lower the cost to customers), and the experience will turn out well for

    them with Cadsoft.

     

    The two primary problems I have with subscriptions are:

     

     

    • My intellectual property is essentially being held hostage.  It

        requires that I have an active paid subscription to maintain

        designs, and

     

    • I have to have a connection to the Internet in order for the

        software to validate the license.  This precludes use of Eagle in

        any environment that does not have a connection to the Internet.

     

    Those willing to accept a subscription model will see a rapid delivery

    of bug fixes and new features, since additional development resources

    can be dedicated to this effort.  I would assume that Matt is pretty

    much heading this up.  What developer wouldn't be happy with more funds

    available for development?  This can purchase higher quality software

    engineers, more floor space, not to mention the long wish list being

    tackled head-on and the integration with the existing MCAD products

    offered by Autodesk.  The downside to a subscription model has been well

    voiced in this forum.

     

    I can see where this is good, very good for Eagle.  It's really too bad

    that I won't be able to share the results of their efforts.

     

    Matt, I sincerely hope you enjoy the adventure ahead.

     

    Best regards,

        - Chuck

     

     

     

    Attachments:
    0652.att1.html.zip
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  • burner
    burner over 8 years ago in reply to dukepro

    I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

     

    Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

    cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

    vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

    time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

    what it was for a /previous/ connection.

     

    As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

    you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

    ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

    I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

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  • dukepro
    dukepro over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    On 03/09/2017 03:22 PM, Burner . wrote:

    I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

     

    Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

    cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

    vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

    time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

    what it was for a /previous/ connection.

     

    As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

    you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

    ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

    I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

     

    Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

    hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

     

    Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

    say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

     

    I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

    other reasons.

     

    Best regards,

        - Chuck

     

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  • dukepro
    dukepro over 8 years ago in reply to burner

    On 03/09/2017 03:22 PM, Burner . wrote:

    I'm missing something... Why would Windows 10 change the MAC address?

     

    Oh... wait, I see. Sometimes you're connected to the Internet via a

    cable (one interface), sometimes through WiFi (another interface), or

    vpn (yet another interface). Depending on what you're using at the

    time, the MAC address for the /active/ connection may be different than

    what it was for a /previous/ connection.

     

    As for windows jumping interfaces up and down quite a lot, then perhaps

    you've chosen the wrong operating system, and not necessarily the wrong

    ECAD package. Something to consider, anyway.

    I think these days it is quite basic thing that some days you use your computer at wired connection and some times you have only wifi. Some times you do not have neither. Anyway if licence manager take identification from active NIC MAC it means that this whole 14 day heard beat thing is useless. Because when you drop your wifi to offline it is not active card any more and it will disable licence. Do they really thing that users will carry dummy wifi AP without uplink with them for workaround =)

     

    Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

    hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

     

    Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

    say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

     

    I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

    other reasons.

     

    Best regards,

        - Chuck

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to dukepro

    Activity as you describe is very true.  As soon as someone goes from

    hardline to WiFi, they could be toast.

     

    Perhaps this would be a good one to hand off to support?  What do you

    say, Jorge?  Are you able to verify this?

     

    I can't complain too much since I don't have a dog in this race for

    other reasons.

     

    Best regards,

        - Chuck

     

     

    Hey Chuck,

     

    To be perfectly honest, I wish you did have a dog in this race. I've

    always appreciated your participation on the forums and your insights,

    but anyway that's a different matter.

     

    This situation has been observed under linux and it is something that is

    being looked into actively. Haven't heard of it on Windows I'll go ahead

    and update the report we have on this issue.

     

    Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

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