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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
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  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 22.02.2017 18:07, Jorge Garcia wrote:

    Hey Morten,

     

    It's nice to hear from you glad you are still around here lurking. I

    know there is a lot of unknowns and fear right now.

     

    I know I've written this like a million times at this point but remember

    that you can subscribe for a month at a minimum so the cost to try out

    the new features isn't that bad (Full 16 layer version of EAGLE for

    $65.00 for one month).

     

    If I weigh this up against what I already have in 7.7, I cant find this

    cost justifying much. I have to wait until there are alot of new

    features, and I know that will take time. It is kinda sad that I won't

    be in the loop to give feedback, because I know I have a lot of

    knowledge and great wishes for the eagle future, at least from the

    advanced user perspective. Anyway, subscribing for a single month is out

    of the question for my kind of use.

     

     

    The new forum from Autodesk, is very nice. Definitely a lot better than

    E-14 but I know that's not saying much. When I first started using it,

    kicked me out a few times but I could still post and respond so not a

    big deal. I encourage you to check it out when you have a chance( 16

    layer board, wow).

     

    I have been looking at it, and it looks "ok", but not better than nntp.

    There is too much space, too many images wanting your attention (ok,

    just a few, but still an infinite multiplum of none), no simple overview

    of all messages, too much empty space, too slow to open a message, ...

    If I spent more time analyzing, I could probably find more

    to whine about.

    16 layers yes, I was even considering using more. In fact Eagle can do

    that(!), because a lot of the layers are plain reference ground for

    impedance and signal integrity. Since I got no blind or buried vias, I

    could have used the same layer to generate multiple reference planes in

    the CAM processor (or my own gerber export ULP).

     

    We really value Morten and all the users like him. I figure that right

    now most of our experienced users are waiting to see how this all pans

    out and I respect that, in your position I would do the same thing.

     

    I don't know where your core business is, but imo eagle is a tool for

    low to middle end small-medium sized boards, and I have been challenging

    its functions for the professional end, so I don't see myself as the

    typical user. If it wasnt for the ULP support and my programming

    knowledge, I would probably looked around for alternatives.

     

    Ed and I are still here and we intend to be here for the foreseeable

    future(in Rachel's terms).

     

    I know you are. I hope to stay too. I'm pretty sure I will, but I can't

    promise you I won't look around. Early in this acquistition process, the

    pricing was the potential thing that scared me most, and my fears came

    through. Afaics, only the recurrent full pricing is a real option to me,

    and that seems to be a significant increase. Autodesk seems to want

    another payment for all the old functionality over again (remember I

    already have it), or they price the new functionality very high. The

    discount for old customers doesn't make a great impact.

     

    Let us know if there's anything  we can do for you.

     

    I could list a few, like comfort me, tell me why I should spend this

    money (or actually open the flow of money for an unknown period of time)

    when I already have v7. [The "already have v7 is important here] It will

    be a very expensive modular design block and soon obstacle avoidance

    (wich is cool, but not that important to me).

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    On 23.02.2017 08:50, Rachael wrote:

    Joop_ wrote on Thu, 23 February 2017 07:42

    rachaelp wrote on Wed, 22 February 2017 23:52

    Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license

    model, but it is not going to happen

     

    How do you know that? Six months ago they said "It's not going

    subscription".

    You say you are not affiliated to Autodesk but still you sound like you

    have more info than us.

     

    Oh for goodness sake, I know nothing more than anybody else on here! I have

    just read every post here and on other forums and have seen the content and

    tone of the replies from the support guys like Jorge and Ed (whom I do

    trust) and they seem to be indicating that a big U turn by Autodesk is

    unlikely.

     

    Do what you like, I will do what I like, which is to NOT currently buy a

    subscription for v8 until it is a) stable and b) has significant new

    features like the new routing engine. I'm in no hurry, I have v7 and I can

    wait and see how things pan out.

     

    Rachael

     

    Rachael, I think they believe you are employed by autodesk/cadsoft

    becase of the amount of messages you put here image Don't you have some

    routing to do? image Yes, when I start to write, I realize I spend quite a

    bit of time on it too!

     

    Joop, there is a link to another forum where a user apparently being

    Matt claimed this. You can find the link somewhere else in this already

    too long thread.

     

     

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Morten Leikvoll wrote on Thu, 23 February 2017 08:01

    Rachael, I think they believe you are employed by autodesk/cadsoft

    becase of the amount of messages you put here image Don't you have some

    routing to do? :d Yes, when I start to write, I realize I spend quite a

    bit of time on it too!

     

    Yes that's a good point, I do actually have some routing I should go and

    do!

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Am 22.02.2017 um 23:52 schrieb rachaelp:

     

    Actually if I were to choose I would much prefer the old license model, but it is not going to happen I don't think and what we have now is way better than what Farnell tried to do and at least now there is significant development resources going into improving EAGLE. I could get angry about the licensing but that wont solve anything so I am choosing to be positive about it and move forward. I can mitigate the negatives, and on balance it will cost me about the same as I will just have annual premium subscriptions which, factoring in upgrade cycles previously, works out about the same. Additionally, if I need any short term assistance and need a second license for a few months it works out a lot cheaper as I wont need to buy a complete second license Just a second subscription for a short period.

     

    Bedt Regards,

     

    Rachael

     

     

    I think autodesk have calculated this risk before:

    "If we increase the average price/month about 500%, we can lose ~70% of

    the old users and we earn more money than with that old license model."

     

    This is a typical decision behavior of big companies. Short thinking

    with quarterly financial statements.

     

    The next step is: "If we lose more than 80% we kill this Eagle experiment."

     

    Maybe the over next step of the loyal old users is to start a

    crowdfounding project to buy eagle back from autdesk.

     

    Andreas

     

     

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  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    rachaelp wrote on Thu, 23 February 2017 08:50

    ... and they seem to be indicating that a big U turn by Autodesk is

    unlikely.

     

     

    Unlikely but possible. And ofcourse they want to let believe us it's

    unlikely.

    Keep in mind that they are salesmen. They tell whatever they think is good

    for

    their business and their jobs. You can not trust them.

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • imm
    imm over 8 years ago

    Hi Matt,

     

    "  a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money. "

     

    Can you confirm how this works - is it as simple as an option from a pull down menu that activate & deactivates the subscription  - if so then this would be very good! As a casual / contract person I use the software infrequently however I need the full Premium version when I do. In the past I have had to squeeze designs into smaller than ideal spaces and use less than the ideal number of layers just because there is insufficient work to justify the cost of the full software. It would be ideal if I could use and pay for the full software for only a few months a year - hey I also know retirees that would love this model giving them full features but only paying when they have a project going.

     

    Ian

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  • Joop14
    Joop14 over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Andreas Fecht wrote on Thu, 23 February 2017 09:23

    Maybe the over next step of the loyal old users is to start a

    crowdfounding project to buy eagle back from autdesk.

     

     

    I have been thinking about that as well. First we have to wait for a year

    to make

    autodesk realize their investment is lost.

     

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • rbtx99
    rbtx99 over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Maybe the over next step of the loyal old users is to start a

    crowdfounding project to buy eagle back from autdesk.

     


    I doubt they are willing to do that. SolidWorks now has a PCB design option ( SOLIDWORKS PCB | Electrical Design Packages | SOLIDWORKS ) and I am guessing Autodesk bought EAGLE so they can catch up with that. I don't think their marketing decisions put much weight on the old EAGLE customers, they just wanted to add PCB design functionality to their product portfolio.

     

    This may or may not be a successful plan. I have yet to see any electronics engineer use SolidWorks for PCB design. Plus mechanical and electronics people have different favourites. You can't get an Altium or OrCaD engineer learn EAGLE because his mechanical engineer colleague wants him to.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 8 years ago in reply to Joop14

    Guest wrote:

     

    ... And ofcourse they want to let believe us it's

    unlikely.

    Keep in mind that they are salesmen. They tell whatever they think is good

    for

    their business and their jobs. You can not trust them.

     

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

    and I guess that with this comment we've reached the bottom. It's bizarre what I'm reading in this thread.

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  • chris60601
    chris60601 over 8 years ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    As I posted on another forum....

     

    Consider this; what if AutoDesk "could" make the 7.7.0 version open to the community for support and development. A fork if you will.

    Find a happy medium for project size and layers, keep the Eagle Cad stamp on the application, keep licensing open and be done with it.

    As this version develops, AutoDesk could take features from this public version and incorporate into the licensed version. This could allow further development expansion for AD and allow further communication with the greater community by showing them that they have "skin in the game".

    In the end, this could sway the hard-line "perpetuals" to adopt the newer versions put out by AD.

     

    For folks or companies that want a "fuller" and supported version; they would pay for the AutoDesk stamped version along with the yearly "maintenance fee".

     

    Thoughts?

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