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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
  • license
  • freeware
  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    Hi Jorge,

     

    at the subscription bindings, is there no discount between 1 to 3 years of bindings?

    EAGLE Subscription | Buy Autodesk EAGLE | Autodesk

    The monthly subscription is most expensive, then by one year we get discount, after that nothing?

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

    I was wondering that too.... I'd also like it if the discount for existing v7 subscribers was able to be applied to the 3 year subscription and not just the 1 year subscription which I think is the current limitation, although I am not sure as I never received any details of the arrangement. As far as I am concerned there should be incentives for buying a 3 year subscription, after all you are giving Autodesk more money up front so there should be some pay back for that....

     

    Best Regards,

     

    Rachael

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to rachaelp

    Yes, and we have the next fundamental problem: 30 day money back guaranty.

    But, what happens if i wish to unsubscribe after two month, or half year, year (by 3 y subs.) ....

    get i back the rest of unused money?

    That's a lot of money what i lose...

     

    Gerald

    ---

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  • rachaelp
    rachaelp over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    Gerald Schwarz wrote:

     

    Yes, and we have the next fundamental problem: 30 day money back guaranty.

    But, what happens if i wish to unsubscribe after two month, or half year, year (by 3 y subs.) ....

    get i back the rest of unused money?

    That's a lot of money what i lose...

     

    Gerald

    ---

    I think if you are thinking you might want to cancel after 2 months then then 1 or 3 year subscriptions are probably not right for you.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Quote:

    So your reasoning while sound doesn't take into account that Autodesk

    is much larger than just EAGLE and it's extremely unlikely that they

    would make an exception just for us.

     

    As I observed in

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/mv/msg/52902/169544/d2cdb3a59e8b8ccb66baa40198073e53/#msg_169544,

    "EAGLE is now just another tool from a big corporation".

     

    Quote:

    Autodesk has almost 3 million subscribers of their software, so they

    have demonstrated that the model works and that there are a lot of

    customers who like the model.

     

    I would have thought there were a lot more than 3 million.  There are "more

    than 4 million engineers in the EAGLE online PCB community" alone.  See

    http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/features/online-pcb-community

     

    Quote:

    Features

    Connect with the largest online PCB community

    Get the answers you need and learn along the way from more than 4

    million engineers in the EAGLE online PCB community.

     

    I'm not saying Autodesk is evil, I just think it's big and impersonal and

    that's a huge change for us EAGLE people.  We're just x number out of

    3,000,000 at Autodesk, where we used to be x of x at Cadsoft.  Sigh...

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to geralds

    On 2/23/2017 12:59 PM, Gerald Schwarz wrote:

    Hi Jorge,

     

    at the subscription bindings, is there no discount between 1 to 3 years of bindings?

    EAGLE Subscription | Buy Autodesk EAGLE | Autodesk (http://www.autodesk.com/products/eagle/subscribe)

    The monthly subscription is most expensive, then by one year we get discount, after that nothing?

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216671

     

     

    Hi Gerald,

     

    I hope you're doing well. I got some information about this. What I was

    instructed to do is to have any customers with pricing questions go here:

    https://knowledge.autodesk.com/contact-support/purchases-returns/buying-autodesk-software

     

    Pricing at Autodesk is handled by a totally different department, so any

    such inquiries have to go through them.

     

    That's all of the info I have.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Hi Jorge,

     

    "So your reasoning while sound doesn't take into account that Autodesk is

    much larger than just EAGLE and it's extremely unlikely that they would

    make an exception just for us. It's not about a technical challenge,

    it's about Autodesk wanting a uniform model across all of it's products."

     

    Thank you for confirming what I and many others on this forum suspected. The new license model is all about what's best for Autodesk, not what's best for us users. That comes across as a giant F*** You to this formerly loyal EagleCAD user. KiCAD, Altium, here I come.

     

    Brent

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  • roycearnold
    roycearnold over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    CadSoft Guest wrote:

     

    In order for Autodesk to back off of this subscription for

    everything(Every Autodesk product has moved to subscription for new

    licenses) model a substantial portion of those 3 million subscribers

    would have to drop out.

     

    Jorge,

     

    Would you please break down that 3 million subscribers?  I may be one of them but I have a Maintenance Subscription not the Desktop Subscription.  For the users on Maintenance Subscription, we still have perpetual license rights.  That is the sole reason, I'm still providing any money to AutoDesk.  It goes and I'm gone (after 25+ years as a user).  Actually we are gone because we have 2 licenses.  Alas, Maintenance Subscription are no longer sold unless you are grandfathered in to them and only on certain products.

     

    Now, if what you said is true that the vast majority of users are satisfied with the new subscription model, why is AutoDesk still offering the maintenance subscription model?

     

    I felt compelled to respond, because I'm not sure everyone is aware of the existence of Maintenance Subscription with Perpetual license rights.  And since they are both referred to as subscriptions, your 3 million probably included both.  Without knowing the breakdown, your statement is hard to evaluate.

     

    Please do not get me wrong,  I understand AutoDesk's position.  Their primary goal is NOT to make a good product.  Their goal is to provide a profitable company to their shareholders.  The 2 may overlap in some regards, but do not in all.  Someone at AutoDesk probably had an Epiphany a few years ago.  They likely could see that some of their products were becoming harder and harder to innovate and becoming fully mature or would be in the near future.  Naturally, sales will fall when that happens as the product does everything or mostly everything that is needed.  Not currently the case with Eagle.  But when a product reaches that life stage what do you do to maintain it's profitability...  Subscriptions are the answer.  You can now continue to charge indefinitely for a mature product.  This only works if you are the dominate player in the market or the other key competitors adopt the same business model.  Assuming there is a relatively constant need for a product, you now have a constant revenue stream which requires minimal continued development.  The financial bottom line can be expanded by raising the prices of the subscription and re-tasking the development resources on other product (new or less mature products, like Eagle).  It's a GREAT business model if you are on the AutoDesk side. 

     

    I honestly do not expect AutoDesk subscription policy to change in regards to Eagle or their other products.  I honestly wish and hope it would, but I've already started evaluating alternatives for all of my AutoDesk products.  Why? As I and others have stated, the new model requires us to relinquish too much control to AutoDesk.

     

    I also understand that for some companies the Desktop Subscription model is attractive from a tax / accounting standpoint (at least in the US) since the entire cost of the license can be expensed in the year of purchase vs depreciated over a period of years.  For larger organizations that can be a significant positive.  For smaller organization, there are other concerns that may out weigh that positive.  Eagle seems like an oddball to me in this regard when compared to other Autodesk products.  By that I mean, it seems that the majority of the Eagle users would fall into the small business / hobbyist group while the other AutoDesk products probably have a greater number of large corporation type users.

     

    I know that you and the other AutoDesk support personnel are probably getting tired of our complaints.  But complaining and refusing to upgrade are the only avenues for us to let someone know that we are seriously dissatisfied.  Only by all of us voicing our negative views can be hope to equal a larger AutoDesk client who might have a $100,000 dollar account versus our $1000 individual accounts. (disclaimer: those last 2 numbers pulled from thin air).

     

    By the way, is it just me or has the forum traffic far eclipsed the negative reaction from Farnell's license change?

     

    Sincerely,

    Royce

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 8 years ago in reply to brentbolton

    Brent Bolton wrote:

    Thank you for confirming what I and many others on this forum suspected. The new license model is all about what's best for Autodesk, not what's best for us users. That comes across as a giant F*** You to this formerly loyal EagleCAD user. KiCAD, Altium, here I come.

    Brent

    Hi Brent,

    I don't think that is what they are saying, its more of adapting a business model that is successfully is working. A model that allows users to begin designing at reasonable price point, then the user can control their entitlement during idle times but still have full access to view and export.  There was no intention to disrespect our long time users, it was a matter of what can be done to satisfy the large flow of requested features and tools without raising the entry price.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    EAGLE Forum

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  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    Hi Ed,

     

    please read page 13,  to 17 in this forum...

    not the price or subscription is the problem...

    Then i suggested 4 points:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216243/l/re-eagle-v8-licensing#216243

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216304/l/re-eagle-v8-licensing#216304

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216382/l/re-eagle-v8-licensing#216382

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216459/l/re-eagle-v8-licensing#216459

     

    Best Regards,

    Gerald

    ---

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  • brentbolton
    brentbolton over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    Hi Ed,

     

    I don't think you're really paying attention to what's being said here. Adopting a business model that successfully works for you but not your users is pointless. There are many other business models that would let you pour more resources into development while not shafting your user base. For instance, the unbundling model where you charge basically the same price for a version that has essentially the v7.x features, and then premiums over that for versions with more advanced features. Further, it's not really about the price. You have competitors that offer perpetual licenses at certain price points. That will force you to always charge a "reasonable" price set by the market. So I'm not worried about that. What I am worried about is my business being held hostage by Autodesk. For example, I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can" in case a customer comes back and wants some variant of one. Say, a few years from now there's some fantastic new CAD package that all my new customers are demanding. I switch to that and now I only need Eagle for that legacy work occasionally. But now I've got to keep paying Autodesk for their continuing improvements that I will never need. Further, the phone home to a server every 2 weeks feature gives me the willies. I don't want to have to depend on the existence of any computer other than my own when my income is riding on it working. Sorry, but your business model carries too much risk for my taste, so as I've said many times, no thanks.

     

    Brent

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