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Autodesk EAGLE
EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
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  • 8.0
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Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
  • geralds
    geralds over 8 years ago in reply to mcb1

    "May the force be with you!"

     

    ---

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 8 years ago in reply to brentbolton

    Hi Brent,

    'snip

    What I am worried about is my business being held hostage by Autodesk. For example, I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can" in case a customer comes back and wants some variant of one. Say, a few years from now there's some fantastic new CAD package that all my new customers are demanding. I switch to that and now I only need Eagle for that legacy work occasionally. But now I've got to keep paying Autodesk for their continuing improvements that I will never need. Further, the phone home to a server every 2 weeks feature gives me the willies. I don't want to have to depend on the existence of any computer other than my own when my income is riding on it working. Sorry, but your business model carries too much risk for my taste, so as I've said many times, no thanks.

     

    Brent

    With the current model, you don't have to be paying continuously, during your idle times you can use the free version as a viewer.  If you need to do some legacy work, then enable your license entitlement for the necessary time.  If you want the latest tools you can download and install, if you don't want the new tools continue working with whatever version you have.  Updates are not pushed, the user is only informed about them.  If you do download load them they will install into new folder, not affecting any previous versions installs.

     

    TMI:  "I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can"

     

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    EAGLE Forums

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  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    Hi Ed,

     

    Brent talks about risks (I totally agree with him) and you answer about

    costs. On the economic side you are saying to pay for use an old version

    to maintain old projects, right? This is another reason for which

    subscription model is absolutely inacceptable!

    On the economic side, if V8 were perpetual I would just upgraded, even

    at the full price... But it seems that you do not want my money and

    prefere to make me angry.

    I am sure you understand perfectly our reason, I can imagine your

    position, but you have to do your job. I (We) will fight for a while,

    maybe something changes, but one day I (we) will have to take a decision

    and, if nothing change, this means to leave Eagle. At the moment I am

    using Eagle only for maintenance or little projects, as a big project

    will start I will move to other tools; at that point no way to come

    back. It is a pity, since I am a long term user and I have not other

    reason to change except license model.

     

    Best regards

     

    Alberto

     

    Il 24/02/2017 16:49, Ed Robledo ha scritto:

    Hi Brent,

    'snip

    What I am worried about is my business being held hostage by Autodesk. For example, I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can" in case a customer comes back and wants some variant of one. Say, a few years from now there's some fantastic new CAD package that all my new customers are demanding. I switch to that and now I only need Eagle for that legacy work occasionally. But now I've got to keep paying Autodesk for their continuing improvements that I will never need. Further, the phone home to a server every 2 weeks feature gives me the willies. I don't want to have to depend on the existence of any computer other than my own when my income is riding on it working. Sorry, but your business model carries too much risk for my taste, so as I've said many times, no thanks.

     

    Brent

    With the current model, you don't have to be paying continuously, during your idle times you can use the free version as a viewer.  If you need to do some legacy work, then enable your license entitlement for the necessary time.  If you want the latest tools you can download and install, if you don't want the new tools continue working with whatever version you have.  Updates are not pushed, the user is only informed about them.  If you do download load them they will install into new folder, not affecting any previous versions installs.

     

    TMI:  "I have a many projects that I've done sitting "in the can"

     

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    EAGLE Forums (https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/bd-p/3500http://)

     

    --

    To view any images and attachments in this post, visit:

    https://www.element14.com/community/message/216737

     

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 2/23/2017 2:53 AM, Morten Leikvoll wrote:

    Let us know if there's anything  we can do for you.

     

    I could list a few, like comfort me, tell me why I should spend this

    money (or actually open the flow of money for an unknown period of time)

    when I already have v7. [The "already have v7 is important here] It will

    be a very expensive modular design block and soon obstacle avoidance

    (wich is cool, but not that important to me).

     

    Hey Morten,

     

    The reality is that it's your money, so don't feel like you have to part

    ways with it now if you are not fully convinced that it is going to be

    worth it.

     

    I see that so far the new features still aren't enough for you and

    that's cool. EAGLE's pace of development has increased greatly and it's

    not going to take a long time to get the features that have been

    promised in.

     

    Like I mentioned on the Autodesk Forums, it is now up to us to earn the

    business of our customers by improving EAGLE and adding features that

    will compel you to go subscription. That is our goal, and for whatever

    it's worth, despite the licensing change, I see EAGLE finally growing

    and getting the development that it has long deserved.

     

    The next few months are going to be interesting, and since you'll be

    checking in you'll be seeing it.

     

    Hang tight and as always let me know if there's anything else I can do

    for you.

     

    Best Regards,

    Jorge Garcia

     

     

     

    --

    We have a new forum here <http://forums.autodesk.com>

     

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  • drkirkby
    drkirkby over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    CadSoft Guest wrote:


    One of the nice things about the EAGLE file format (since version 6 at

    least) is that it is easy to read. I've already written a program that

    opens an EAGLE file, reads it and can parse the XML. (I even posted a

    couple of my early experiments

    http://www.eaglecentral.ca/index.php/m/156145/6f8dbdb16391f7c28db5b12f3dbae997/?srch=python#msg_156145.)

    If anything happens to EAGLE or Autodesk, we'll still be able to access

    our EAGLE files, if only to convert them to some other package.

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

    Yes, that's a valid point. I see there are a number of Eagle to $other_PCB_package around, but all seem to have some issues, and not do a perfect translation.

     

    I've met this problem many times with other software. Mathematica had some significant changes in version 6, and had a converter to convert files from versions 5 or lower to version 6. In practice it was only partially successful. It would be nice if OpenOffice was 100% compatible with Word files, but in practice it is not.

     

    Dave

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  • drkirkby
    drkirkby over 8 years ago

    A suggestion that want to get the license of Eagle changed

     

    1) Make a donation to KiCad, via CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research), The minimum donation is 20 Swiss Francs, which is just under $20.

     

    https://giving.web.cern.ch/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=6

     

    2) Leave your name - don't make the donation anonymous.

     

    3) Write to the CEO  of Autodesk, saying you are thinking of switching to KiCad, and show you have donated to the KiCad project, but say will stick with Eagle if the license decision is reversed.

     

    Whilst I can see some attractions for a company in having one license model for all products, it is too simplistic to assume that the same model is fit for all, especially if those products are aimed at different market sectors. A license model that is appropriate for software that's going to be sold to large corporations, may well be inappropriate for software that's going to be used by the hobbyist/small business market.

     

    Personally I can't see how this sort of license model is good for anything other than videos, music, games software, or anything else where loss of access is not going to have a major impact.

     

    BTW, if you run Eagle >= 8 in a virtual machine, I suspect you can stop it "phoning home" indefinitely. The program is not going to know what the date is, as long as the clock in the machine is set back before you start the program.

     

    Dave

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to drkirkby

    David Kirkby wrote on Fri, 24 February 2017 12:07

    A suggestion that want to get the license of Eagle changed

     

    Look at the direction Autodesk is going in as a corporation.  EAGLE is only

    a (small) part of that corporation...

     

    If this was EEVBlog, I'd insert "beating a dead horse".

    --

    EAGLE support forums at http://www.eaglecentral.ca :: Where the EAGLE community meets.

     

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 8 years ago in reply to drkirkby

    Are you going to work with unlicensed software as a professional designer? You make your own customers liable in that case.

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  • levafreidin
    levafreidin over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

         Just make my opinion stronger: they bought the EAGLE to kill the competitions.

    How many products disappear after another BIG company, "Microsoft", bought them?

                   Lev Freidin.

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to drkirkby

    @David Kirkby:  Are you advocating breaking the license & stealing the software?  Just curious.

     

    Best regards,


    Matt - Autodesk.

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