Featured Articles
Announcing Pi
Technical Specifications
Raspberry Pi FAQs
Win a Pi
Raspberry Pi Wishlist
Actions
Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 9 replies
  • Subscribers 657 subscribers
  • Views 1397 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Related

Why do we not see Windows for the Raspberry Pi? Well it may have been due to licensing.

cstanton

Beyond the IoT Core version, perhaps it has to do with an exclusivity deal with Microsoft and Qualcomm since the Raspberry Pi runs an Arm-based processor.

This isn't explicitly a new article, it was published in 2021, but since there's no explicit date on when that deal will or has, or if it'll expire, perhaps we should now start seeing the fruits of that deal expiring.

An excerpt from the article:

"Last week, we reported that MediaTek is planning to build a chipset for Windows on ARM. As it turns out, the Windows on ARM chipset space could be even hotter than that, because there's a reason that we've only seen Qualcomm SoCs in ARM PCs so far. Qualcomm actually has an exclusivity deal with Microsoft for Windows on ARM, and speaking with people familiar with it, we've learned that the deal is set to expire soon.

Other than the fact that Microsoft has publicly said that anyone who wants to can build a Windows on ARM chip, this really shouldn't come as a surprise. Qualcomm didn't just start building PC chips hoping that Microsoft would compile Windows to support it. No, these two companies worked together to make it happen. Because of that, Qualcomm gets to enjoy a bit of exclusivity.

One thing I wasn't able to learn is when the deal will expire, only that it's the thing holding back other chip vendors from competing in the space. It's possible that Samsung might want to throw its hat into the ring with its Exynos processors too, especially given its recent partnership with AMD for graphics power. This is also presumably why Apple Silicon Macs aren't officially supported for running Windows 11, so hopefully that will change as well."

Anecdotes from Reddit claim that the deal will be ending sometime in 2024, and Arm CEO has allegedly confirmed it will be by the start of 2025, which explains for the further development by AMD and NVIDIA working on their own Arm chips for Windows.

  • Interesting, but I kinda like the fact I don't run Windows on my ARM stuff. The Surface RT wasn't a hit because it had all the clunkiness of Windows with none of the backward compatibility benefits. I think the more modern Windows on ARM OS has some limited support for x86 emulation which makes this less of a downside (although I haven't tried it myself), but unless products bring Apple M1/M2/M3 levels of performance and power efficiency, I struggle to see how it will take off. I can't see Microsoft giving away Windows entirely ... nor can I see myself wanting to run it on a Pi when Linux exists. I may run Windows on the desk, but that's alongside Linux too. If they make it run on a Mac M1/M2/M3, it may be interesting to those users ... but those laptops are way too expensive for what they offer me and I'm not sure Apple would necessarily like that as they're seemingly trying to keep everything "walled garden".

    - Gough

  • I'm a developer concentrating mostly on a Microsoft stack and using Windows for development. Even so, I can't see a benefit of running Windows on the Raspberry Pi. Windows 10 IoT was a clunky disaster and I have no desire to see anything like that again.

    .NET Core runs really well on both the Pi and BeagleBone and I've created a few products along those lines. From a purely dev perspective running .NET Core on Debian feels like the right way to go. Even if Windows ran reasonably well with a full UI on a Pi5 (for instance) I don't think I'd want to go that way anyway.

  • Despite the licensing issue, they would have to strip down windows a lot for it to run well on a Raspberry PI - unless only the PI5 would be supported.

    The Windows Surface RT was a disaster.  And M$ would have a lot of work - alongside the companies that offer software for windows - for it to have the same software availability that Linux has for the ARM versions.

    I'm sure that, if it existed (with graphical environment), a lot of people would use it (not me). IMHO, having Linux running in it - and very well - there's no need for M$ to bring windows to it.  It's a niche environment and I'm not sure if M$ would have a profit at all (Work that would be x licenses sold x Software availability) .

    Not when there are mini computers the size of the Raspberry PI with x86_64 processors that can run windows.

  • I think Windows on ARM is a good thing. The competition will be healthy. Linux developers and enthusiasts won't likely switch but they may need to step up their game. MS may need to provide better pricing and maybe more efficient code. It is all good. Intel won't be happy, they might need a new game plan. If MS bought Qualcomm, where would that leave Intel? (not that it is likely happen) Apple and Google won't like Windows on ARM but hopefully they don't do things that are bad for consumers in response.

  • in reply to dougw
    dougw said:
    I think Windows on ARM is a good thing. The competition will be healthy.

    I'd agree with you there. And with Fred27. Unlike Fred, I've been moving jobs back and forth between Windows and Linux (and Unix, and Netware once in the day). Choice helps. And being able to switch and be able to work well on the platforms helps too.

    Maybe there will be a day where even headless Windows is becoming popular on devices?

  • in reply to Fred27
    Fred27 said:
    I can't see a benefit of running Windows on the Raspberry Pi

    Never underestimate the intimidation of being unable to navigate a Linux file system in comparison to Windows.

    "What's /etc/ ?"

    "Where are my files? What's /home/ and why can't I write to /usr/lib?"

    "I just want to install Java so that Minecraft will run on my Pi, which version do I run?"

    "I set a sudo password and now I can't remember it, do I have to reinstall?"

  • I think becase Raspberry Pi foundation is not interesting in that support and do not want to pay for it any single $. But some other venders are interested. For example, NXP shown running Windows 10 on their ARM i.MX 8 MPU at last Embedded World and stated that they support it and their procesors (which performance is not very far from performance of RPI) handles Windows well. They have BSP and SDK for generating ACPI table and allows developers to customize emulated BIOS for running Windows and allowing embedded developers for customizing it.

    See Micrsoft's video which explain what changed from Windows 10 IoT Core (which run on RPI also) to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise and also show some captures from Windows 10 desktop running on i.MX.

  • in reply to misaz

    It looks like MS is serious about putting Windows on ARM, although this platform is the same price as a PC.

  • in reply to dougw

    Yes, they are. Some of their flagship laptops and tablets MS Surface runs on ARM for years.