element14 Community
element14 Community
    Register Log In
  • Site
  • Search
  • Log In Register
  • About Us
  • Community Hub
    Community Hub
    • What's New on element14
    • Feedback and Support
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Personal Blogs
    • Members Area
    • Achievement Levels
  • Learn
    Learn
    • Ask an Expert
    • eBooks
    • element14 presents
    • Learning Center
    • Tech Spotlight
    • STEM Academy
    • Webinars, Training and Events
    • Learning Groups
  • Technologies
    Technologies
    • 3D Printing
    • FPGA
    • Industrial Automation
    • Internet of Things
    • Power & Energy
    • Sensors
    • Technology Groups
  • Challenges & Projects
    Challenges & Projects
    • Design Challenges
    • element14 presents Projects
    • Project14
    • Arduino Projects
    • Raspberry Pi Projects
    • Project Groups
  • Products
    Products
    • Arduino
    • Avnet Boards Community
    • Dev Tools
    • Manufacturers
    • Multicomp Pro
    • Product Groups
    • Raspberry Pi
    • RoadTests & Reviews
  • Store
    Store
    • Visit Your Store
    • Choose another store...
      • Europe
      •  Austria (German)
      •  Belgium (Dutch, French)
      •  Bulgaria (Bulgarian)
      •  Czech Republic (Czech)
      •  Denmark (Danish)
      •  Estonia (Estonian)
      •  Finland (Finnish)
      •  France (French)
      •  Germany (German)
      •  Hungary (Hungarian)
      •  Ireland
      •  Israel
      •  Italy (Italian)
      •  Latvia (Latvian)
      •  
      •  Lithuania (Lithuanian)
      •  Netherlands (Dutch)
      •  Norway (Norwegian)
      •  Poland (Polish)
      •  Portugal (Portuguese)
      •  Romania (Romanian)
      •  Russia (Russian)
      •  Slovakia (Slovak)
      •  Slovenia (Slovenian)
      •  Spain (Spanish)
      •  Sweden (Swedish)
      •  Switzerland(German, French)
      •  Turkey (Turkish)
      •  United Kingdom
      • Asia Pacific
      •  Australia
      •  China
      •  Hong Kong
      •  India
      •  Korea (Korean)
      •  Malaysia
      •  New Zealand
      •  Philippines
      •  Singapore
      •  Taiwan
      •  Thailand (Thai)
      • Americas
      •  Brazil (Portuguese)
      •  Canada
      •  Mexico (Spanish)
      •  United States
      Can't find the country/region you're looking for? Visit our export site or find a local distributor.
  • Translate
  • Profile
  • Settings
RoadTests & Reviews
  • Products
  • More
RoadTests & Reviews
RoadTest Forum Difficulty getting good ripple / noise measurements
  • Blog
  • RoadTest Forum
  • Documents
  • RoadTests
  • Reviews
  • Polls
  • Files
  • Members
  • Mentions
  • Sub-Groups
  • Tags
  • More
  • Cancel
  • New
Join RoadTests & Reviews to participate - click to join for free!
Actions
  • Share
  • More
  • Cancel
Forum Thread Details
  • State Not Answered
  • Replies 21 replies
  • Subscribers 2561 subscribers
  • Views 2665 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Related

Difficulty getting good ripple / noise measurements

Fred27
Fred27 7 months ago

Im currently roadtesting the Rohde & Schwarz NGC103 and as part of my investigation I'm trying to measure the ripple / noise and compare it to other supplies. The problem I'm having is that I don't seem to be able to get a reasonable measurement. I get the feeling that isn't swamped by external interference.

I watched a helpful EEVBlog video and tried to optimise my setup but I don't seem to be able to get close to any meaningful measurement. In fact, there's not much different if I just connect the two banana plugs together and measure the noise on my 0V there!

Here's a photo of the best setup I've managed so far. I tried differential measurement with one probe on + and one on - and measuring the difference. Whilst I could see the common mode noise on both channes that were being cancelled out, the result was still noisier than this. I have AC coupling, a 20Mhz bandwidth limit and have tried via a 10:1 probe, a 1:1 probe, and probeless direct via banana to BNC as pictured.

Noise measurement setup

Noise measurement screenshot

Any suggestions? In fact, is measuring noise in a setup like this even useful? Would you just trust the datasheet on this? For reference, the datasheet says < 6mV peak-to-peak and < 1mV RMS. I'm getting over an order of magniture more.

  • Sign in to reply
  • Cancel

Top Replies

  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 7 months ago +6
    R&S have a good reputation so I would expect their PSU to meet its spec. The way I measure noise on embedded PSUs is to solder an SMA connector to the PSU and use an SMA to BNC lead to connect to the…
  • michaelkellett
    michaelkellett 7 months ago in reply to Andrew J +3
    Some of it will be covered in my Road Test on the Vishay Sic967 which is due within a couple of weeks but I'll think about a dedicated blog for later in February if I get time, but I have a lot of stuff…
  • battlecoder
    battlecoder 7 months ago +2
    I would definitely recommend using a resistor as a load instead of an electronic load (they do introduce some amount of noise and ripple). From the EEVblog videos I've watched, if you are going to use…
Parents
  • anniel747
    anniel747 7 months ago
    This reply was deleted.
    • Cancel
    • Cancel
  • Fred27
    0 Fred27 7 months ago in reply to anniel747

    That certainly helped get a better picture of what was going on. A spectragram revealed some intermittent noise around the ISM band here in the UK - 433MHz and just under 700MHz. I think that's to be expected. However, the big reveal was a lot of noise around 20MHz that disappeared when I went out into the garden. I suspect this is the USB power built in to my wall outlets. I also remembered that I was using an old-ish Ethernet over poweline adapter but that didn't seem to be causing any problems.

    However I still have a fair amount of noise at lower frequencies. The FFT says arounf 76kHz but I think that'll be a rough figure. I'm still not sure what this is, but it's still swamping any readings I'm getting from the PSU.

    image

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps 7 months ago in reply to Fred27

    A 20 MHz peak seems to be high for switch mode supply harmonics. Maybe an artifact generated by a PC?

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
  • shabaz
    0 shabaz 7 months ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    When I was testing this:  Building a Low-Cost Low-Noise Negative- or Positive-Rail Power Supply 

    I was getting ballpark 40 MHz noise coming from somewhere. I never managed to get to the bottom of it : (

    In my case I could power from a battery and put it all in a metal box, but I don't have any ideas for when the DUT is the power supply itself : ( maybe an isolation transformer powering the supply could partially help if that noise is coming from the mains, but maybe it wont have much improvement : ( Or, a mains filter (example one is mentioned here:  Building a Mains Breakout Box ) . Or, add a load of ferrite beads to the output wires of the power supply (using coax). I don't think it's unreasonable to use the ferrite on the supply output cables for the roadtest, I think that's a very valid way to use the power supply. And any customer buying the R&S supply for the low noise, would love to know which ferrites/how many of them, and how to wire up to the circuit under test, using whatever cable Fred27 decides on and measures with. Would be super-useful to all I reckon, even those with other power supplies.

    Regarding ferrites any of these might be good: farnell order codes 1838839 or 1651719  or  1703107, or even fatter ones (and pass the wire through a couple of times at least, and maybe use many of them, e.g. three or four at least.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps 7 months ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    n.b.: industry convention for noise measurements is 20 MHz. Many oscilloscopes have a "high-bandwidth/20 MHz" switch because of that. 

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 7 months ago in reply to Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps said:
    A 20 MHz peak seems to be high for switch mode supply harmonics. Maybe an artifact generated by a PC?

    Notches roughly where the amateur bands are suggests HF PLC (either video or networking).

    https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/special-focus/pla-plt/2012/11/12/a-standard-for-powerline-telecommunications-devices-the-rsgb-involvement/

    "So in simple terms what does this mean? The standard has been approved and devices that fail to meet it will no longer be able to be sold, after a three-year grace period, unless certified to meet EN50561-2012. Significant protection is provided for the Amateur HF bands, as the standard specifies fixed notching for these and other safety of life bands, reducing conducted emissions from PLC devices to the levels of EN55022."

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
Reply
  • jc2048
    0 jc2048 7 months ago in reply to Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps said:
    A 20 MHz peak seems to be high for switch mode supply harmonics. Maybe an artifact generated by a PC?

    Notches roughly where the amateur bands are suggests HF PLC (either video or networking).

    https://rsgb.org/main/blog/news/special-focus/pla-plt/2012/11/12/a-standard-for-powerline-telecommunications-devices-the-rsgb-involvement/

    "So in simple terms what does this mean? The standard has been approved and devices that fail to meet it will no longer be able to be sold, after a three-year grace period, unless certified to meet EN50561-2012. Significant protection is provided for the Amateur HF bands, as the standard specifies fixed notching for these and other safety of life bands, reducing conducted emissions from PLC devices to the levels of EN55022."

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Verify Answer
    • Cancel
Children
No Data
element14 Community

element14 is the first online community specifically for engineers. Connect with your peers and get expert answers to your questions.

  • Members
  • Learn
  • Technologies
  • Challenges & Projects
  • Products
  • Store
  • About Us
  • Feedback & Support
  • FAQs
  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy Policy
  • Legal and Copyright Notices
  • Sitemap
  • Cookies

An Avnet Company © 2025 Premier Farnell Limited. All Rights Reserved.

Premier Farnell Ltd, registered in England and Wales (no 00876412), registered office: Farnell House, Forge Lane, Leeds LS12 2NE.

ICP 备案号 10220084.

Follow element14

  • X
  • Facebook
  • linkedin
  • YouTube