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Ask an Expert Forum UKCA (or CE) marking required for LED ceiling lamps?
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UKCA (or CE) marking required for LED ceiling lamps?

Andrew J
Andrew J over 1 year ago

One for the sparkys here in the UK: does an LED ceiling lamp sold in the UK market require a UKCA (or CE) marking?  Any other marking to show regulatory compliance, if necessary?

I ask, because I have received a LED ceiling lamp that has 7 arms with LEDs in a round metal holder at the ends.  It is intended for direct connection to the 240V lighting circuit with the full voltage going to each metal holder at the end of the arms (no earthing point in those metal holders.)

The ceiling rose is also metal, has no earthing point, has 30AWG (or close) out to the LED holders intended to be connected to supplied (but not fitted) slightly thicker wires which then need to be connected to the lighting circuit.  Frankly, it looks dangerous to me and I'm not installing it; really I ought to have known better but there you go, impulse purchase.

I'm going to push for money back and wanted to know if a lack of regulatory marking was something I could add to the evidence.

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  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to Andrew J +4
    Offer it to the altar of the god of unsafe UK appliances: https://www.bigclive.com/
  • Jan Cumps
    Jan Cumps over 1 year ago +2
    Not going to comment on UK standards, but on the safety and grounding expectations: Does it have this symbol for double isolation on it? That would define that it's supposed to be wired without ground…
  • Andrew J
    Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps +2
    If they don't send me a return label perhaps I will
  • anniel747
    0 anniel747 over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    Lots of plastic and some CCA wire is the norm nowadays.

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  • Andrew J
    0 Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    Yes I know.  I once purchased a 24V power brick from Amazon and the output wires were not much better than those above and it was rated at 3A!!  Recently wired up an IEC cable to use at the museum and its wires were fine for the 10A it is rated for.  I guess really it doesn't matter if others do it and get away with it, nobody should be doing it! 

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 1 year ago in reply to Jan Cumps

    John Ward's YouTube channel has interesting experiments with suspect power cables:

    C5 Power Lead Destroyed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfU5lzXAHAQ

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  • kmikemoo
    0 kmikemoo over 1 year ago in reply to beacon_dave

     beacon_dave That is FANTASTIC!!! LaughingJoy  I love Big Clive.  Thank you for sharing that.  I may have to watch that video clip a few more times over the weekend.

    In the US, our plugs have no overcurrent protection built in - except for some of the Christmas (fairy) lights.  Now I'm wishing that I hadn't thrown out the UK plugs that I got with a few pieces of test equipment.

    I've cut apart a bunch of IEC cables as the jackets don't always stay in the molded plugs.  I agree that there is not a lot of conductor in there.  If it's the female end that fails and there's at least 1.5mm² conductor, it might get used for a power pigtail.  Any smaller and it gets cut again and recycled.

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 1 year ago in reply to Andrew J
    Andrew J said:
    In this case, nothing is connected up at all, so the purchaser/installer would need to go to town with ferrules and connector blocks and earthing.

    Perhaps this has been done on purpose in order to exploit a loophole. You are effectively buying a partly assembled kit of parts as opposed to a complete light fitting that meets regulatory conformance out of the box.

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  • phoenixcomm
    0 phoenixcomm over 1 year ago

     Andrew J Ok Ill bite, im in the US! First, all appliances must be fully grounded!! (you know the third plug even in the UK!)  The second, LED of that type has a dropping Resistor or some sort of low-voltage generation. Take away. its TRASH it will KILL you if it fails! if it does not have the ground find metal and connect it to the ground in the wall. 

    Say a prayer to the Gods and ask not to be killed today!!  then toss it into the bin! ~~Cris H. 

    all of my LED Lighting are run off a Transformer!!  (and a series resistor) now say Amen! 

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  • BigG
    0 BigG over 1 year ago in reply to beacon_dave

    While the amount of conductive wire is linked to current draw, I believe the amount of insulation around a wire is then typically associated to the rated voltage applied.

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  • Jan Cumps
    0 Jan Cumps over 1 year ago in reply to phoenixcomm
    phoenixcomm said:
    First, all appliances must be fully grounded!!

    Biting back Slight smile

    Double isolated appliances should not be grounded.

    phoenixcomm said:
    LED of that type has a dropping Resistor or some sort of low-voltage generation.

    No. It has an IC with current regulation. That lamp is not a dropper design.

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  • beacon_dave
    0 beacon_dave over 1 year ago
    Andrew J said:
    I'm going to push for money back and wanted to know if a lack of regulatory marking was something I could add to the evidence.

    I'm guessing you have already found this ?

    IEC 60598-1 on luminaires is the definitive safety standard for luminaires. It specifies the essential electrical safety and performance requirements for all types of electrical luminaires with requirements for their design, construction, test, and performance.

    IEC 60598-1 covers all common types of luminaire and is designed to be used in conjunction with Part 2 standards, each of which tailor the general requirements for use with specific types of luminaire.

    IEC 60598-1 has been fully updated to include recent innovations.

    https://knowledge.bsigroup.com/products/luminaires-general-requirements-and-tests-6?version=tracked

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  • Andrew J
    0 Andrew J over 1 year ago in reply to beacon_dave

    No, and I guess at £410 a copy I never will Grinning  The link I posted earlier, that I eventually found, was fairly clear on requirements for any product over 50V AC.  

    Your earlier point about loopholes by providing "a kit" I don't think would stack up, even if it isn't possible to stop someone popping down B&Q to buy a bunch of bits to stick together.  It's been decades since the UK mandated that all appliances had to come with a moulded plug on the end of the power lead.  Saved the hunt for a plug to stick on the end of the cable - and the rob Peter to pay Paul approach.  I guess many 13-amp plugs were fitted to 3-amp requirement units!  Any light fitting I have bought in many a year, that required any form of construction, had all wired elements fully connected unless it was a low voltage picked up from a (wired up) power rail.  The only connection for the consumer to do was to the actual lighting circuit and all required connector blocks are in place and, typically, fixed to the unit - often leading to much swearing and arm ache in fixing heavy units in place.

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