element14 Community
element14 Community
    Register Log In
  • Site
  • Search
  • Log In Register
  • Community Hub
    Community Hub
    • What's New on element14
    • Feedback and Support
    • Benefits of Membership
    • Personal Blogs
    • Members Area
    • Achievement Levels
  • Learn
    Learn
    • Ask an Expert
    • eBooks
    • element14 presents
    • Learning Center
    • Tech Spotlight
    • STEM Academy
    • Webinars, Training and Events
    • Learning Groups
  • Technologies
    Technologies
    • 3D Printing
    • FPGA
    • Industrial Automation
    • Internet of Things
    • Power & Energy
    • Sensors
    • Technology Groups
  • Challenges & Projects
    Challenges & Projects
    • Design Challenges
    • element14 presents Projects
    • Project14
    • Arduino Projects
    • Raspberry Pi Projects
    • Project Groups
  • Products
    Products
    • Arduino
    • Avnet Boards Community
    • Dev Tools
    • Manufacturers
    • Multicomp Pro
    • Product Groups
    • Raspberry Pi
    • RoadTests & Reviews
  • Store
    Store
    • Visit Your Store
    • Choose another store...
      • Europe
      •  Austria (German)
      •  Belgium (Dutch, French)
      •  Bulgaria (Bulgarian)
      •  Czech Republic (Czech)
      •  Denmark (Danish)
      •  Estonia (Estonian)
      •  Finland (Finnish)
      •  France (French)
      •  Germany (German)
      •  Hungary (Hungarian)
      •  Ireland
      •  Israel
      •  Italy (Italian)
      •  Latvia (Latvian)
      •  
      •  Lithuania (Lithuanian)
      •  Netherlands (Dutch)
      •  Norway (Norwegian)
      •  Poland (Polish)
      •  Portugal (Portuguese)
      •  Romania (Romanian)
      •  Russia (Russian)
      •  Slovakia (Slovak)
      •  Slovenia (Slovenian)
      •  Spain (Spanish)
      •  Sweden (Swedish)
      •  Switzerland(German, French)
      •  Turkey (Turkish)
      •  United Kingdom
      • Asia Pacific
      •  Australia
      •  China
      •  Hong Kong
      •  India
      •  Korea (Korean)
      •  Malaysia
      •  New Zealand
      •  Philippines
      •  Singapore
      •  Taiwan
      •  Thailand (Thai)
      • Americas
      •  Brazil (Portuguese)
      •  Canada
      •  Mexico (Spanish)
      •  United States
      Can't find the country/region you're looking for? Visit our export site or find a local distributor.
  • Translate
  • Profile
  • Settings
FPGA
  • Technologies
  • More
FPGA
Forum PALs and 2023
  • Blog
  • Forum
  • Documents
  • Quiz
  • Events
  • Polls
  • Files
  • Members
  • Mentions
  • Sub-Groups
  • Tags
  • More
  • Cancel
  • New
Join FPGA to participate - click to join for free!
Actions
  • Share
  • More
  • Cancel
Forum Thread Details
  • Replies 14 replies
  • Subscribers 529 subscribers
  • Views 2311 views
  • Users 0 members are here
  • fpga
Related

PALs and 2023

SGarciaV
SGarciaV over 2 years ago

Hello all!

My first post in this forum. I haven't been to E14 in a while; now everything is different!

I may start a project in the near future that involves TTL 74LS logic. Currently, I will be using one 74LS00, but the chip count may rise depending on design decisions. A priority is keeping the chip count down, so I may want to integrate some of the glue logic. Way back - in the 80s -  I used PALs for this purpose. Doing some research, I see that this option is still available. Since we have fast-forward a few decades since the 80s, I am wondering if there is a more modern, mainstream option, other than PALs (or GALs).

This forum was the closest I could find to programmable logic, I hope it is the correct place to ask. I should mention that if my needs are simple enough a 16L8 PAL might do the trick (sorry, trying to remember this from back then). I have a TL866 II Plus, so if the device can be programmed with this programmer, it would be a plus. Thanks for any orientation or feedback. Salvador

  • Sign in to reply
  • Cancel

Top Replies

  • johnbeetem
    johnbeetem over 2 years ago +3
    Howdy! I used to do a lot of design with CPLDs and FPGAs. From a quick search today, I'd take a look at Microchip. https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/fpgas-and-plds/spld-cplds# They have some…
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago +2
    Hi, 74LS is obsolete, there are other logic families that might suit you more. In any case, the (slightly more) modern replacement for typical PAL chips were CPLDs. They are also now not as common…
  • flyingbean
    flyingbean over 2 years ago +2
    CPLD might be a good candidate if you prefer to implement gate/register circuits rather than modern DSP slice/LUTs for your projects. Please check Microchip website, since it is the major manufacturer…
  • charlieo21
    charlieo21 over 2 years ago

    The first things that come to mind is SPLD/CPLD and FPGAs. Tha latter will be hard to find a part with a DIP package.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • SGarciaV
    SGarciaV over 2 years ago in reply to charlieo21

    Thanks! I looked up SPLD and found this:

    www.electronics-tutorial.net/.../

    Looks like I am back to PALs! :-D Salvador

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • dang74
    dang74 over 2 years ago

    As charlieo21 mentioned  both CPLDs and FPGAs are the next step on the ladder and what programmable logic has ultimately evolved to.  With that said I study the schematics of old arcade boards and noticed that GALs were commonly used back in the 80s for some of the glue logic.  So as of late I've been intrigued with the idea of using a GAL as a way of doing something retro without using dozens 7400 series parts.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 2 years ago

    Hi,

    74LS is obsolete, there are other logic families that might suit you more. 

    In any case, the (slightly more) modern replacement for typical PAL chips were CPLDs. They are also now not as common, but there are plenty for sale on Farnell/Newark, so if this is a hobby project, then CPLD could still be a suitable option. They are easy to use (either by using a more normal HDL (Hardware description language; like VHDL) than early programmable logic used (which were more like a text description of table entries), or by directly entering in logic gates into a schematic). 

    A nice CPLD family is Xilinx Coolrunner, e.g. XC2C64A, there are hundreds of them in stock according to the Farnell site, and they cost about £10 each (not cheap, but for a hobby project there's often not a requirement for least cost). The required software is Xilinx WebPACK, which is still available from the manufacturer website. The chip comes in TQFP package, but some are very large (0.8mm pin spacing) and easy to solder onto a breakout board using a normal soldering iron. They can be programmed using (say) a raspberry pi, hooked up to the programming pins (called JTAG).

    However, the next step up from CPLD is to use an FPGA. The easiest way to get going with them is to first buy a dev board since that may contain a programmer built-in, and easy to use connectors (most FPGAs are finer pitch parts than the old CPLDs), and then when you're happy, you could move to the individual IC. A lowish-cost dev board is ICE40HX1K-STICK-EVN (£49 GBP, currently 99 in stock on the Farnell website). The basic FPGAs such as that are not much harder to use than the CPLDs, but depending on the manufacturer free supplied software they might not come with a schematic entry method, you may have to use a HDL. There is also open source software but that's another topic altogether, and is not applicable for all HDLs. FPGAs take their configuration from external memory by the way, unlike CPLDs.

    Yet another approach could be to consider something like Infineon/Cypress PSoC chips or dev boards, they are a microcontroller with a (very tiny) bit of programmable logic attached. However I know nothing about those, and cannot comment.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • flyingbean
    flyingbean over 2 years ago

    CPLD might be a good candidate if you prefer to implement gate/register circuits rather than modern DSP slice/LUTs for your projects. Please check Microchip website, since it is the major manufacturer for CPLD parts now.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • dougw
    dougw over 2 years ago in reply to shabaz

    Infineon PSoCs can be used strictly as programmable logic gates and "TTL" style logic functions without dealing with the MCU at all. They even have comparators and opamps. They can also operate from below 2V to over 5V.

    I did an example of PSOC programmable logic without MCU here:

     The Logical Project 

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +2 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • johnbeetem
    johnbeetem over 2 years ago

    Howdy!

    I used to do a lot of design with CPLDs and FPGAs.  From a quick search today, I'd take a look at Microchip.

    https://www.microchip.com/en-us/products/fpgas-and-plds/spld-cplds#

    They have some low-density CPLDs, and even have DIPs as well as PLCCs which you can use with sockets that have pins with 100 mil centers.  "Microchip is the sole manufacturer of SPLD products that replaced PLA- and PAL-type devices in the mid-1990s."  For example, they have a 22V10 part which is a superset of the MMI PALs.

    I think these parts were originally Atmel, which Microchip acquired.  I've never used these specific parts.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +3 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • SGarciaV
    SGarciaV over 2 years ago in reply to johnbeetem

    I will look into the Microchip products, thanks! Salvador

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • SGarciaV
    SGarciaV over 2 years ago in reply to flyingbean

    Thanks. Yes, I will check Microchip. Although too far in the future to tell, but I will probably need something simple. BTW, way cool avatar!

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up 0 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
  • SGarciaV
    SGarciaV over 2 years ago in reply to dougw

    Nice! I'll have to have closer look at your project and associated videos.

    • Cancel
    • Vote Up +1 Vote Down
    • Sign in to reply
    • Cancel
>
element14 Community

element14 is the first online community specifically for engineers. Connect with your peers and get expert answers to your questions.

  • Members
  • Learn
  • Technologies
  • Challenges & Projects
  • Products
  • Store
  • About Us
  • Feedback & Support
  • FAQs
  • Terms of Use
  • Privacy Policy
  • Legal and Copyright Notices
  • Sitemap
  • Cookies

An Avnet Company © 2025 Premier Farnell Limited. All Rights Reserved.

Premier Farnell Ltd, registered in England and Wales (no 00876412), registered office: Farnell House, Forge Lane, Leeds LS12 2NE.

ICP 备案号 10220084.

Follow element14

  • X
  • Facebook
  • linkedin
  • YouTube