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Documents Learn Three Ways You Can Create Bode Plots - Workbench Wednesdays 64
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  • Author Author: tariq.ahmad
  • Date Created: 9 Nov 2022 6:10 PM Date Created
  • Last Updated Last Updated: 23 Nov 2022 8:24 AM
  • Views 23028 views
  • Likes 5 likes
  • Comments 19 comments
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Learn Three Ways You Can Create Bode Plots - Workbench Wednesdays 64

Creating a bode plot from a simulation (or transfer function) is easy. But what if you want to create a bode plot for a REAL op-amp circuit or filter? One way is to measure a few parameters with an oscilloscope and function generator and then put those into a spreadsheet. Another is to use network analysis or frequency response analysis to do it automatically!

Watch the Video:

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Supplemental Content:

  • Workbench Wednesdays 42: Compare Ideal vs. Real Filter with an LCR Meter
  • Workbench Wednesday 17: Instrument Basics: Function Generator
  • Workbench Wednesdays 54: How Oscilloscope Acquisition Modes Work
  • Workbench Wednesday 18: Digilent Analog Discovery Review
  • Workbench Wednesdays 49: Instrument Basics: Vector Network Analyzer (VNA) with PicoVNA
  • DC to Daylight 13: How Operational Amplifiers Work
  • The Learning Circuit 68: How Op Amps Work
  • Voltage Feedback Op-Amp Gain and Bandwidth App Note

Bill of Material:

Product Name Manufacturer Quantity Buy Kit
LM358 - Audio TI 1 Buy Now
TL081 - JFET General Purpose, 4 MHz SOIC-8 ST Microelectronics 1 Buy Now
Bench Oscilloscope - 200 MHz, 1 GSa/s, 14-bit, AFG, DMM Multicomp Pro 1 Buy Now
[Bundle] Development Kit, Analog Discovery 2 Pro Bundle, 30MHz Oscilloscope, 12MHz Waveform Generator Digilent 1 Buy Now
MXO4 - 4 Channel Oscilloscope 200 MHz Rohde & Schwarz 1 Buy Now
 

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element14 Presents  |  About James|  Workbench Wednesdays

  • bode plot
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Top Comments

  • scottiebabe
    scottiebabe over 3 years ago in reply to jc2048 +3
    I think BE just had bad luck with the intern/murphy . The TL081 spice model doesn't include any capacitance on its input, let alone the parasitic capacitance on a breadboard. Green: No cf, Red: Cf…
  • jc2048
    jc2048 over 3 years ago in reply to baldengineer +1
    Here's a possible theory you might test. The TL081 has a pair of offset pins which you appear to have left unconnected. As well as using them to adjust the offset, which you wouldn't need to worry about…
  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe +1
    Cool! My plan is to solder a duplicate circuit to a perfboard (with generous solder) and do the sweep/plot again when I talk about how to automate the measurement in python (for those that don’t have an…
  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago in reply to dougw

    Yes! That would be a faster way to visualize the amplitude change than setting up cursors.

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago in reply to jc2048

    I have been able to change the simulation to match the measured result.

    Interesting idea on the test with offset pins. I'm curious what will happen, so I'll give it a try.

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago in reply to scottiebabe

    I didn't pay the distortion much mind. 2.5 MHz into an LM358 in a breadboard while the oscilloscope is in averaging mode is going to get a funky waveform.

    Or, maybe averaging wasn't on in this case. I cannot remember if the MCP's FRA tool changes the acquisition settings. (I do not think it does.)

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  • jc2048
    jc2048 over 3 years ago in reply to baldengineer

    Here's a possible theory you might test.

    The TL081 has a pair of offset pins which you appear to have left unconnected. As well as using them to adjust the offset, which you wouldn't need to worry about for ac-coupled signals with a lowish gain, one of them could also be used to adapt the compensation for better bandwidth (see the part of the TI datasheet that refers to feed-forward compensation - there's a graph and a schematic, but it's not all that clear on a quick, casual read that they relate together or what the circuit does). On your breadboard, with all the parasitic capacitances between traces, it might just be that you're doing your own adaption of the compensation. A simple way to find out is to bend both those legs so that they're pointing straight up and have minimal capacitance to anything else and see if the Bode plot changes.

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  • scottiebabe
    scottiebabe over 3 years ago

    I think the intern is playing a cruel joke on you, something isn't right there:

    image

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  • rsjawale24
    rsjawale24 over 3 years ago

    I love the FRA analysis option present in the Keysight scopes. It's really easy to use it and give quick analysis of the DUT

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  • dougw
    dougw over 3 years ago

    To get an idea of frequency response you could sweep an input frequency and look at the output amplitude envelope on a scope.

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago

    At the end of the video, before I rushed The Intern to the ER, I showed this picture:

    image

    I didn't show in the video how closely the LM358-based circuit matched between simulation and measured. (The -3dB point was off by a few kilohertz--but close enough.)

    So any thoughts as to why the TL081-based circuit has such a different response in simulation versus being measured?

    For reference, here are the LTSpice files I used.

    wbw64 - lm358 and tl081 LTspice sims.7z

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  • baldengineer
    baldengineer over 3 years ago

    FYI, In a future video, I will show how to automate the manual measurement using SCPI commands and Python. It has been fun to develop that script!

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