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EAGLE User Chat (English) Eagle v8 licensing...
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  • eagle
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  • 8.0
Related

Eagle v8 licensing...

technolomaniac
technolomaniac over 8 years ago

Hi All --

 

Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

 

Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

 

WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example.

 

Point is, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us *at all* to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.  As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.  To demonstrate this behavior in one category, without a path for user SW and data, calls into question ALL of our tools' viability under this model.  Not helpful.

 

Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

 

"So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a *paid* version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

 

So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection *except when you first install it* (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req.  So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection.

 

Caveat:  to install an update, you will need to login.  The update server (which issues the new version...e.g. 8.1 or 8.2. or 8.0.1, etc.) requires that you login and get the update, but beyond that, logout.  Thus if you want to go off-grid in a mountain cabin somewhere, get your license at Starbucks (blagh! I understand they have 'free' wifi, but no frappucinos!  ...that stuff is bad for you) then get your license and go on your merry way up to the snow drenched peaks.  When you hear from the other mountaineers or your local yodeler that a new version of EAGLE is available...download, login, get your license, get your 'decaf double-pump vanilla non-fat latte macchiato' and head back up the slopes.

 

Point being, we can do the freeware better.  So we will.

 

Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

 

Best regards,

 

Matt Berggren

Director - Autodesk

@technolomaniac

hackaday.io/matt

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Top Replies

  • COMPACT
    COMPACT over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest +4
    Not to worry, it's back to the Drawing board for me.
  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago +3
    Hi Matt, When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE…
  • albertovignati
    albertovignati over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport +3
    Il 21/02/2017 22:54, Ed Robledo ha scritto: The customers are the sole driving force to the improvements to EAGLE. Some of these 'wants' take time to be done right, that's the reason they were not done…
  • dukepro
    dukepro over 8 years ago

    On 01/18/2017 02:26 PM, Matt Berggren wrote:

    Hi All --

     

    Moving this to a separate thread so it doesn't get lost in the ether.  Here's my two cents on licensing and I'd love your feedback:

     

    Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

     

    I can see that you're pretty much laughing off our concerns.

     

    The only example you could present where this subscription based license

    will save the customer money is for a part time Eagle user.  Look at it

    this way...  In the last 4-1/2 years, I spent about $1000 to upgrade a

    3-user Professional license from v5 to v6, and to v7.

     

    Based on the current pricing of $500 per user per year, the equivalent

    3-user Ultimate license will now cost $6,750 for 4-1/2 years.

     

    Matt, help me to understand how the total cost of ownership is now lower

    than what it was?

     

    WRT to "what happens if autodesk decides to one day just shut off the license server?" ...ok, sure, that's possible, but so is a reality TV star becoming President of the..cough...nevermind, bad example. 

     

    Point it, that's a pretty remote possibility (think: time travel and alien invasions) and it wouldn't benefit us at all to upset the users we just spent real money hoping to bring into autodesk and earn their business.

     

    Again, I fail to see the humor.  It's not so much about shutting down a

    license server - it's more about the ability to access it.  Several

    customers, including myself, have already expressed concerns about

    this.  A scenario that is far more likely to occur would be one that is

    out of Autodesk's control - something like a virus that renders getting

    packets to and from Autodesk impossible.

     

      As the guy with both development and P&L for the product, I can tell you that it's counterintuitive and wouldn't benefit us at all.  We know this.  We make SW used by governments, movie studios, game developers, MEs, Civil Engineers, machinists, etc. and you can bet that shutting down a license server is not to our benefit in any of these categories.

     

    Yes, and you now make software that can not be used in a secure or

    remote environment.  Yeah... I also read about Global Travel Rights.

     

    Now...a question was raised about "but what if I drop my subscription and I want my data".  Awesome, the data is yours and lives on your machine.  And for SW that stores data in the cloud (we have some of these) we always provide a path to your data.  If this again fails with one product, it puts all of the others up for discussion.  Again, not helpful.  (Read:  strategy = doomed).

     

    Is it safe to assume that when you say that the license server and data

    in the cloud will always be available, it means that your servers are

    fully secured and unhackable and will never go down.  We're more likely

    to face an alien invasion than to have such servers.

     

    "So what about needing an entitlement for the freeware to open the data I created in another version (a paid version) and reading it?  What if I want access and I dont want the 14-day time out?"

     

    So here's the deal...We can do better here.  So we will.  Here's my commitment to the group here for freeware that ensures you always have a license that you can fall back on without need of internet connection except when you first install it (which after all, you would have had to get it in the first place):  *in version 8.1 or 8.0.1 or whathaveyou (let's call it 'a future release'), if you install the SW and authenticate once, we'll remove the timer req. * So what I'm saying another way is, the freeware will require you to login the first time to get your license, but if you log out beyond that, you're good.  You got your entitlement and you can use it freely without connection. 

     

    If you can remove the timer requirement for the freeware, then you can

    also set the timer to a period longer than 14 days, per Rachel's suggestion.

     

    Hope this is clear.  Let us know if you have questions!

     

    I sincerely hope that Autodesk will lend a serious ear to and address

    the concerns expressed about subscription based licensing.

     

    However, I truly believe that this is a lost cause considering that

    Autodesk's business model is subscription based.

     

    Thanks for your help,

        - Chuck

     

     

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to techsupport

    On 19.01.2017 16:11, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    With my limited exposure to the transition to Autodesk, piracy was not

    really a factor considered for implementing a subscription model into

    EAGLE.  As stated earlier, it was about making the product assessable,

    flexible and affordable.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    Edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

    The emphasis was more on the

     

    >>> The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    >>> absolutely NO REASON

    >>> to change that.

     

    part....

     

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  • danteo
    danteo over 8 years ago in reply to dukepro

    I can see all those new licensing modes for new product. But it's not this case.

     

    The new Eagle is forked from the old Eagle.

    The old Eagle had licensed users.

    The new Eagle wants old Eagle's user pool to pay "again"?

     

    Or am I misunderstanding the whole thing?

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  • shabaz
    shabaz over 8 years ago

    Hi Matt,

     

    When will the EAGLE Maker version (or another solution for hobbiests) be v8-ready? I see the subscription for 'EAGLE Standard' and 'EAGLE Premium' are now available on the website, but not EAGLE Maker.

     

    As mentioned in an earlier thread I'm not averse to the subscription model for the Maker version provided it works out cheaper than purchasing/upgrading releases without skipping them,

    The free version is something that doesn't work for me, since I need 4-layers (and 6 currently), for not-profit purposes. Many hobbyist needs require 4-layer, and it was nice that

    you guys leap-frogged the competition to offer 6-layer (which I and others will need more and more today and in the future).

     

    Many thanks,

     

    Shabaz.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago in reply to danteo

    On 19.01.2017 16:32, Dan Teodorescu wrote:

     

    The new Eagle wants that old Eagle's user pool to pay "again"?

     

    No they want a constant cash flow. "Pay" would imply you own the

    software afterwards, they want to rent it to you.

     

     

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Hi Matt, so to be clear with V8 we are obtaining a new copy of the

    software based on subscription that has nothing to do with the previous

    versions we paid for or where those were installed and used as I don't

    see the words upgrade used anywhere.

     

    I am a licensee of Unity3D. They too have gone the subscription route.

    They offered existing PRO customers a 50% reduction in their yearly

    subscription cost with an option to renew at that same price for a

    second year.

     

    Will Autodesk be offering any incentives to keep their existing customers?

     

    Glenn

    Hi Glenn --

     

    We're working out the details of that for v7 customers.  More to come on that here shortly!

     

    Best regards,

     

    Matt

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  • techsupport
    techsupport over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    On 01/19/2017 10:30 AM, Markus Rudolf wrote:

    On 19.01.2017 16:11, Ed wrote:

     

    Hi Markus,

    With my limited exposure to the transition to Autodesk, piracy was not

    really a factor considered for implementing a subscription model into

    EAGLE.  As stated earlier, it was about making the product assessable,

    flexible and affordable.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    Edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

    The emphasis was more on the

     

    The old license system has been working fine for many years. There's

    absolutely NO REASON

    to change that.

     

    part....

     

    Hi Markus,

    I have been blessed to be part of the EAGLE support team for a very long

    time. I am confident to state that we would get anywhere between 20 to

    40 request of existing users asking to get access to their license

    because they have misplaced their key or no longer have their

    installation code. Every time we had an update, the request might reach

    hundreds every day. Many voiced frustration because they intended to

    work during the weekend but couldn't validate their registration.

    This new model now gives the user access to their software without

    requiring pairing up a file and installation code.

    Best Regards,

    Ed

    edwin.robledo@autodesk.com

     

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  • technolomaniac
    technolomaniac over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    No they want a constant cash flow. "Pay" would imply you own the

    software afterwards, they want to rent it to you.

     

    The major difference being that if you dont like what we release in a subsequent point-release (8.1, 8.2, 8.3...) you have not paid for everything up front, hoping one day they add better routing or better hierarchy, or better connectivity tools or design rules, etc. and then beeb disappointed that you "bet" it would come in version x.y only to find that it didnt.

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  • bvwj
    bvwj over 8 years ago in reply to autodeskguest

    Dead to me also.  Fortunately KiCAD appears ready for real work.

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  • autodeskguest
    autodeskguest over 8 years ago

    On Wed, 18 Jan 2017 19:26:46 GMT, Matt Berggren

    <noreply-480270@element14.com> wrote:

    Firstly, the Autodesk licensing model is subscription and the EAGLE paid license will require that you install the SW and then generate an account to retrieve your license entitlement.  Once you have this, you are good to go and the SW will run as expected.  If you lose your network connection, the SW has a 14-day heartbeat that will enable you to work offline for 14 days.  I know that some folks would prefer to never have to connect, but this is required to support a monthly subscription model that can be selectively enabled and disabled when you use the SW (so you only pay when you use it).  The total cost of ownership for those folks using it less than a few weeks a year will thus be substantially lower and still enables you to access the full software for less money.  <Insert revolt here>  image

     

     

     

    So Eagle is going to the subscription model. Didn't you learn anything

    from the previous licensing fiasco?

     

    You can count me and my company out. I will not rent any software,

    especially not business critical software like this.

     

    Does anyone happen know a good KiCad tutorial aimed for Eagle users?

     

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