Shared access to schematic/project

Thanks Chuck.  I've ended up basically "staying out of it" and when I have something to contribute I send a small mini-schematic as a separate file.  it's worked out well.

I think your advice is very sound and I know exactly what you mean about the mental plan.  Thanks

On 09/03/2011 02:17 PM, Robert Pearce wrote:

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011, Jorge Garcia wrote to us saying :

>>

>> To clarify, the XML file format will be implemented in Version 6 so

>> from that point on version control systems will be very easily able to

>> handle our files.

>>

I think it needs to be pointed out that merely being a text file does

NOT mean version control systems will "be able to handle" the files any

better.

 

All version control systems can "handle" binary files to the extent of

storing them. The extra features they can provide for text files are

diff and merge methods. However, these functions are universally

implemented on a line-by-line basis, such that the tool can identify

lines that have been added, deleted, moved etc. For most programming

languages, this line-by-line approach works well. For XML it absolutely

does not. The thing is, XML is fundamentally not line-based - it's

simply a token stream where the tokens are in ASCII rather than binary.

Rob makes an excellent point.  This reflects on the long standing

requests for an ascii file format.  The motivation for this is to be

able to merge changes just as we do with programming languages.

Consider, for a moment, all the loop elements within the ULP spec, and

how these would be expressed in XML.  Wires, for example, don't seem to

be in any particular order.  Are they sorted by layer, or by starting

location, or perhaps just unsorted and occur in the order in which they

were defined?  A straight-out dump of these in XML format could mean

that a slight change to a wire (changing the width of the wire) would

cause it to be placed at the end of the list, which would generate a

significant change in the XML file rather than just a change in the

width tag.

So the new format not only needs to be an ascii format (XML is fine),

but also must be formatted to accommodate the intent behind the

requests.  I assume that the software engineers at cadsoft will be

mindful of this.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011, Jorge Garcia wrote to us saying :

>To clarify, the XML file format will be implemented in Version 6 so

>from that point on version control systems will be very easily able to

>handle our files.

I think it needs to be pointed out that merely being a text file does

NOT mean version control systems will "be able to handle" the files any

better.

All version control systems can "handle" binary files to the extent of

storing them. The extra features they can provide for text files are

diff and merge methods. However, these functions are universally

implemented on a line-by-line basis, such that the tool can identify

lines that have been added, deleted, moved etc. For most programming

languages, this line-by-line approach works well. For XML it absolutely

does not. The thing is, XML is fundamentally not line-based - it's

simply a token stream where the tokens are in ASCII rather than binary.

--

Rob Pearce                       http://www.bdt-home.demon.co.uk

The contents of     | All power corrupts, but we need electricity.

this message are    |

purely my opinion.  |

Don't believe a     |

word.               |

On 9/2/2011 12:41 AM, Steve Klett wrote:

Hi,

 

I have hired a contractor to do some eagle work for me as I'm not yet up to speed enough to meet a deadline.  Anyway, so I'd still like to help and be involved in the process but I don't see how the two of us can work on the same file without creating a real mess.  I can solve the shared access issue by granting him VPN to our file server, but I highly doubt that eagle will be too happy if we both are editing the file at the same time.  THe only option I can think of is to use version control or a basic "Are you working right now?  No? OK, then I will for awhile and will email you when I'm done" type approach.

 

Anyone here who works or has worked in a multiuser scenario have any tips for me?

 

Thanks for reading,

Steve

 

Hi Steve,

To clarify, the XML file format will be implemented in Version 6 so from

that point on version control systems will be very easily able to handle

our files.

There are many possible choices, I personally like Bazaar since it has a

very smooth GUI interface, however there are many other alternatives

such as RCS, CVS, Mercurial, SVN, Git, etc.

I will second the opinion of the other posters who have stated that it's

best to let the contractor do most of the work and just periodically

look over the work and make comments. The mental picture Andrew

mentioned is a very real thing, and oversights can definitely occur if

two people start making changes at the same time.

What I've seen work well is to set milestones. When the contractor

reaches the milestone have him send you the files, you look them over

and comment. Once everything is approved he continues to work on to the

next milestone and the process repeats.

In this way designs errors can be nipped in the bud.

hth,

Jorge Garcia

On 09/02/2011 12:41 AM, Steve Klett wrote:

Hi,

 

I have hired a contractor to do some eagle work for me

...

I don't see how the two of us

can work on the same file without creating a real mess.

You can't.  You need to designate a single owner of the files.

THe only option I can think of is to use

version control

Yep.  This is the best solution.  We use Perforce in our shop.  You can

get a free version limited to 2 users.  Other change management systems

should work as well.

"Are you working right now?  No? OK, then

I will for awhile and will email you when I'm done" type approach.

Yep.  It's generally called "baton passing", taken from a relay race

where one runner passes a baton to the next.  Whoever holds the baton

owns the files.

With all that said, Cadsoft is planning to store files in an XML format,

though I'm not sure what version in which this is scheduled to be

implemented.  At one point I heard 6.0.  Regardless, an ascii text

format like XML should make it easier to merge multiple changes.

Enjoy,

    - Chuck

On 9/2/11 12:41 AM, Steve Klett wrote:

Hi,

 

I have hired a contractor to do some eagle work for me as I'm not yet up to speed enough to meet a deadline.  Anyway, so I'd still like to help and be involved in the process but I don't see how the two of us can work on the same file without creating a real mess.  I can solve the shared access issue by granting him VPN to our file server, but I highly doubt that eagle will be too happy if we both are editing the file at the same time.  THe only option I can think of is to use version control or a basic "Are you working right now?  No? OK, then I will for awhile and will email you when I'm done" type approach.

 

Anyone here who works or has worked in a multiuser scenario have any tips for me?

Frankly, my tip is to let your contractor do all the work

If you want to help and be involved, ask to review the work and make

comments on it by e-mail but do not modify the files.

Schematics/PCB's require a certain "mental picture" to be formed by the

designer, and if someone else modifies things the mental picture starts

to break down and mistakes or oversights occur. Unless, that is, you can

split up the work into well-defined parts of minimal interaction.

As a contractor that does Eagle work, I much prefer "owning" the files

until the design is done and not having changes made on me by the client.

 

Thanks for reading,

Steve

 

Andrew.

On 09/02/2011 12:41 AM, Steve Klett wrote:

Hi,

 

I have hired a contractor to do some eagle work for me as I'm not yet up to speed enough to meet a deadline.  Anyway, so I'd still like to help and be involved in the process but I don't see how the two of us can work on the same file without creating a real mess.  I can solve the shared access issue by granting him VPN to our file server, but I highly doubt that eagle will be too happy if we both are editing the file at the same time.  THe only option I can think of is to use version control or a basic "Are you working right now?  No? OK, then I will for awhile and will email you when I'm done" type approach.

 

Anyone here who works or has worked in a multiuser scenario have any tips for me?

 

Thanks for reading,

Steve

 

I have not done it and it is not going to be easy. Before you have a

board linked to the schematic you should be able to work on different

pages then cut and paste from one version to the other. Keep detailed

log of notes of what you are changing and adding and why.

If you are going to change default net names it may make merging data

require a little more overhead. If so you should keep a master net name

list.

Once you are in the layout phase you have to keep both sch and brd open.

From this point on simultaneous editing should be locked out.

Paul R