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Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest ?

cstanton

"No"

Is probably what's already on your fingers ready to type in reply, and that's fine.

Each year I took part in "Reddit Secret Santa", where you're matched against another person, who you find information about, and send them a secret santa gift for Christmas.

Someone matches with you, and you hope that they will send you something, after all, they signed up for the Secret Santa.

A few years in a row, I was 'shafted' and wasn't sent anything, sometimes in these cases, you're matched up with a new Secret Santa and then sent something, unfortunately that didn't happen either.

This caused a bit of an uproar in Reddit, while people were happy if they got anything and knew they weren't necessarily entitled to anything, they felt that it wasn't quite in the spirit of things.

So along came the idea of becoming an 'Elf'. You paid $5 to enter the Reddit Secret Santa, and that put you against other people who had also paid $5, the idea being because you'd all invested a base amount in it, you're more inclined to make sure that the person you're matched with will get a present, and you yourself will get a present, and you're supporting Reddit at the same time. Everyone wins and you're invested in it.

This pretty much worked for Reddit, paying into something seems to 'click' with people that you want to be with others, so you're paying the 'premium' to get into that rather than anyone who can sign up and looking for a freebie without paying it forward. A bit capitalist but some people like to support things.

There are other mechanisms that they use for reputation with Secret Santa, when you successfully enter a Secret Santa you gain a token, you gain another token for sending off your 'Parcel', and you gain another token for marking your parcel as received, and you gain another token when your Secret Santee receives your Parcel. You can then 'spend' these tokens to enter another Reddit Secret Santa. Don't do these? Well, you don't get your tokens. Though even this has mechanisms where "what if you just create another account?" and "how do you get tokens if you want to redeem yourself?" - I'm sure some vetting and mechanism is involved there, too, but ultimately there's also weight to paying to opt-in with like-minded people.

Which puts the thought of "Should you have to pay to opt-in to a RoadTest" ?

We've had members over the years that receive equipment, and they run off with it and don't do a RoadTest. This harms the Community, and it harms the suppliers when they provide the hardware (especially if it's early access hardware).

How would this work? I'm not entirely sure.

Would you have to pay-in to apply to the RoadTest?

Would you only pay-in when you're chosen to write the RoadTest review (so before you receive the hardware), would it be a deposit?

Which is reimbursed when you've wrote the RoadTest Review? (I think I'd prefer the deposit idea out of any of these).

Would we only do this for RoadTest kit over a certain value?

We have no plans whatsoever at implementing anything like this, this's the first time I've brought it up to anyone (including to the Community team itself), it's simply a thought passing my mind. We also don't intend on implementing this from any outcome of this conversation - though if I could at least do the 'token/points' system, I'd consider that, handling money is dangerous, but accountability matters.

But perhaps a bit of reflection on the fact that we don't do this will give some people who consider a RoadTest pause for thought.

Thanks to all members of the Community that enters a RoadTest and writes your RoadTest reviews, and those who keep applying for a RoadTest even if you aren't chosen for that particular item. We appreciate you.

  • in reply to JWx

    Good ideas, how about hobbyist level Road Tests, and professional level RoadTest ? 

  • I believe we can best respond to the question when we understand the priorities of the RoadTest program. Without that knowledge the question is just another entrance into the rabbit warren of initiatives to achieve RoadTest Compliance.

    What is RoadTest Compliance? Getting something posted by the due date but lacking substance.

    If members were asked to provide ten priorities for the program, I suspect each list might be different. I suggest if members were given ten priorities of the program and asked to rank them, that ranking would be different also.

    I can recall when RS was revamping the program the application was a priority. The application has gone through a number of iterations but is still at the core of the program. The application is the investment a candidate makes to enter the program. There is you dollar down to participate.

    I get annoyed when an applicant says, Now that I have been awarded the RoadTest, what would you like me to do? Hey wait a minute. What did you pitch in your application?

    The goal for any RoadTest is defined in the application. I have worked on RoadTest where I have little resources to complete the task and receive poor vendor support. I have also participated in RoadTest where the vendor has invested in me to enhance their return. One of the scenarios it is easy to deliver on the application and the other not so much.

    How do we ensure the candidate delivers on the application? 100% delivery for every application is the ideal. What delivery is acceptable and what will it costs to achieve that acceptability?

    A RoadTest escrow has some advantages and disadvantages. How much it will improve delivery on the application and at what cost is undefined. If creating opportunities for engaging members is a priority of the program. Escrow can create a burden.

    I confess I am critical of vendor support for a RoadTest. Obsolete links, no documentation and no inquiry response can be disheartening. I hold one understanding. I work for RS when I undertake a RoadTest. If there is a risk on my application deliverables he is the first to know. If I have exhausted support resources (that includes posting to the E14 Community of struggles) he get the details. I would rather tell him than have him find out. One is proactive and the other is reactive.

    Since RS understands the priorities of the program I have to accept approach of continuing to invest in the application provides the best returns.

  • in reply to robogary

    Somehow, I feel that we had something sort of related (in part) before in two forms - RoadTest by Invitation and RoadTest Plus. It seems the idea didn't stick either.

    An example of RoadTest by Invitation - /products/roadtest/rt/roadtests/36/knipex_self_adjustin#pifragment-4106=9&pifragment-4100=4

    An example of RoadTest Plus - /products/roadtest/rt/roadtests/421/the_internet_of_holi#pifragment-4106=9&pifragment-4100=4

    While not exactly what you propose, it seems RoadTest by Invitation is a specific manufacturer-chooses situation. Whereas a RoadTest Plus is perhaps a more challenging one but with additional rewards (hybrid design challenge).

    More modern RoadTests seem to have a "pitch" which states the intended audience/test alignment which allows one to judge the level on their own ... but I guess this is where it's hard to draw a line as many of us are both professionals and hobbyists ... which is why we're here!

    - Gough

  • in reply to Andrew J

    And what you can learn on the journey...

  • Everybody has already made great points.

    One additional thought to ponder that came to mind:

    Will some RoadTesters see the deposit by itself as being fulfillment of ethical duty, leading to fewer actual RoadTests being completed?

  • Absolutely not... Fool element14 ONCE.... SHAME on them... Fool element14 TWICE ...Sham on element14.. 

    I like the way things are going now. I apply for a roadtest and get selected... do my review and learn something new.

    I have made a mental note of road-test participation and sometimes I'm the only one selected that submits a review. So I'm aware of the problem, But please don't penalize me by requiring me to pay to play.

  • in reply to feiticeir0

    Previously element14 road test application form had something that was asking questions to the user that have you participated in road test or already wrote a blog, or asked a question in the forum?

    I think that is a good approach that if person is really sincere he/she would/should have done something before that they can get a free product. Isn't it so?

    The application form now does not seems to have these kinda questions anymore..Grin

    Anyways for the road test, you may wanna have some per-condition to apply.

    With payment and stuff things can get quite complected as well specially for international transfer and charges etc. This will be like more work on both side also from your end it will require more work to manage payments etc.

    So my idea would be to use some active contribution of user to approve them for the road test for not very expensive products..

    For expensive products such as scopes and other instruments, there might be this option?Stuck out tongue

  • in reply to Andrew J

    We often hear this aphorism being quoted "Time Is Money". And indeed it is, whether it's time spent at work earning a wage or it's the opportunity cost lost because something else could have been done in that time frame. We all place a value on our time spent doing something or in allocating time in a schedule to do something.

    So when a supplier launches a new innovative product it should be expected that few will have the skill to learn how to use that product within the allotted time frame, let alone create a meaningful road test that matches their proposal. It's one reason I do road tests (and read them) is that it gives structure to working out if a new product will do what it says it can do.

    As you say this is where "imposter syndrome" plays a significant role... i.e. feeling you're not up to the job, even though 90% of engineers would be in the same boat if they had to try and use the product too. There are, of course, plenty reasons for this like marketing taking precedence over technical detail - the goal of any company is to sell more product so why wait until it's perfect etc.

    This then comes back to making sure we let others know that we are having problems and to ask questions, even if they are seen as stupid questions. A hard one to do when reputation is at stake. As Doug commented "it's all about the journey".

    Now whether one can then find more time in a busy schedule to complete something that has taken longer than expected or the road test started at a later date than expected is of course another issue altogether.

  • I have never participated in a road test because I don't think I have the skills to do a road test fairly. Yes, I have participated in other programs in which you agree to carry out and document a project or an experiment, something that amuses me and stimulates me to learn new things. Having said this, I think that paying a deposit is not going to change the strategy of someone who wants almost free equipment. I would prioritize those candidates who have already blogged on element14 or another similar site and have already demonstrated commitment and review skills. A kind of: in order to participate, show me something that you have already done similar.

  • in reply to embeddedguy
    embeddedguy said:
    Previously element14 road test application form had something that was asking questions to the user that have you participated in road test or already wrote a blog, or asked a question in the forum?

    Thanks to the awareness of the site's capability of reporting we don't need to directly ask these questions.